LocalHero1953 Posted July 28, 2017 Share #1 Posted July 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm posting this question here because there are likely to be more people that know the answer than elsewhere, although it is not related to the Monochrom. I have just bought the Huaweii P10, which has a 20mp monochrome lens & sensor, as well as a separate 12mp lens and sensor. The monochrome element of the camera only produces JPEGs. If you want a raw file, you have to get it from the 12mp lens/sensor. So my question is: am I losing anything by getting only a jpg file rather than a raw file. Is a monochrome jpg lacking useful information compared to a raw? Are my processing options more limited? I know from practical experience how limited colour raws are compared to colour JPEGs, but I am inexperienced with monochrome files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Monochrome JPEGs what do you lose from raw?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 28, 2017 Share #2 Posted July 28, 2017 Yes, a JPG file has less data than a raw file. Basically it is meant to be used unaltered, or with limited editing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted July 28, 2017 Yes, a JPG file has less data than a raw file. Basically it is meant to be used unaltered, or with limited editing. Can you say more? Less gradation in tonality? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2017 Share #4 Posted July 28, 2017 No, it was a general response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 28, 2017 Share #5 Posted July 28, 2017 Can you say more? Less gradation in tonality? The formula/algorithm that saves as JPEG makes decisions regarding the rendering of color to B&W. You must accept the outcome. If you are comfortable with post processing color, then you can choose, mix and match color translations to various intensities, luminances to different shades of grey. For example in post processing color (PP) you can mimic a yellow filter to darken a deep blue sky to whatever degree you wish, and/or a green filter to lighten foliage, the later providing your PP permits layers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted July 28, 2017 Share #6 Posted July 28, 2017 Good question. I did not test it but my conjecture is that lifting shadows, stretching or shrinking the histogram, manipulating the curve from straight to s-filmlike, would all result in less experienced depth in the image, more noise in the shadows and bleak highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2017 Share #7 Posted July 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The formula/algorithm that saves as JPEG makes decisions regarding the rendering of color to B&W. If it translates luminance to shades of grey, then you must accept the outcome. If you are comfortable with post processing color, then you can choose, mix and match color translations to various intensities, luminances to different shades of grey. For example in post processing (PP) you can mimic a yellow filter to darken a deep blue sky to whatever degree you wish, and/or a green filter to lighten foliage, providing your PP permits layers. Not applicable in this case, Pico, it is a monochrome camera without Bayer filter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 28, 2017 Share #8 Posted July 28, 2017 Not applicable in this case, Pico, it is a monochrome camera without Bayer filter. Is it? What a shame. I thought it was an option with a camera using a Bayer matrix. Once again, thank you for the correction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted July 28, 2017 Yes, no Bayer filter; the P10 has one camera (12mp) with and one without (20mp). Which led me to wonder if there is a practical difference between a monochrome JPEG (which can be converted to a TIFF) and a monochrome raw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 28, 2017 Share #10 Posted July 28, 2017 Yes, no Bayer filter; the P10 has one camera (12mp) with and one without (20mp). Which led me to wonder if there is a practical difference between a monochrome JPEG (which can be converted to a TIFF) and a monochrome raw. It depends upon how lossy the JPEG is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 28, 2017 Share #11 Posted July 28, 2017 It also depends on the color depth of the sensor. JPEG is limited to eight bits per channel. The sensor may deliver more than eight bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted July 28, 2017 It also depends on the color depth of the sensor. JPEG is limited to eight bits per channel. The sensor may deliver more than eight bits. What would that mean in monochrome terms? Less subtle tonal gradations? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 29, 2017 Share #13 Posted July 29, 2017 What would that mean in monochrome terms? Less subtle tonal gradations? This, and you can't recover in post processing any details in the underexposed shadows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjay Posted August 1, 2017 Share #14 Posted August 1, 2017 No argument that there is far more latitude in a raw file, in effect a digital negative. However, opening a .jpg in camera raw can reveal a surprising amount of detail in the shadows. The original of the following sample was borrowed from the website of Alan Bailward http://www.bailwardphotography.com/blog/dramatic-black-white-portraits/ The second image resulted from just a couple of slider adjustments to exposure and shadows, with a slight clarity tweak... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/275142-monochrome-jpegs-what-do-you-lose-from-raw/?do=findComment&comment=3327823'>More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 1, 2017 Share #15 Posted August 1, 2017 Here is another view on this, I took this photo with my Monochrom (246) shooting DNG+JPEG Fine and then open both in Camera Raw. I then adjusted the DNG file to my liking and synched those settings over to the jpeg and it is clear that the jpeg needs even larger changes to end up with the same output. (This was shoot at ISO 4000 because I wanted to test this at a high ISO for other reasons). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/275142-monochrome-jpegs-what-do-you-lose-from-raw/?do=findComment&comment=3328088'>More sharing options...
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