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New Pani / Leica DSLR?

chrisbo

By chrisbo
in Digital Forum

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FastFashnReloaded

FastFashnReloaded

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LOL

Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera when any APS-C DSLR has a significantly larger sensor, thus larger pixels per same pixel count, with inherently greater dynamic range and a better S/N ratio? A Nikon D40X with its superb new 18-55mm lens or a Sony Alpha with its great range of Carl Zeiss glass is a far better choice in the same price range. Twenty-five hundred for a D3 like looking through a straw? No thanks. I'll keep my D2 (and D200).

 

Oh, and by the way, I've used a D-200 for a wedding shoot, and I own an E-330 and an E-500. I've also used the E-500 for a wedding, for which a slightly longer and brighter lens than the one I had would have been nice.

 

"Sony Alpha with its great range of Carl Zeiss glass" Great range is kind of an over statement. Besides, I can put Contax glass on the E-500 or E-330. (Leica too...)

 

"Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera when any APS-C DSLR has a significantly larger sensor"

 

It isn't significantly larger.

 

"Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera"

 

That's the same kind of moronic argument that people use in asking, "Why would you buy a rangefinder?!" Different tools for different jobs, that's why.

 

"A Nikon D40X with its superb new 18-55mm lens"

 

Superb?

 

"Twenty-five hundred for a D3 like looking through a straw?"

 

I'm used to a Contax G2 vf, which isn't that huge, so I've found that the darker vf doesn't really bother me. Also, of course, on the E-330 you have a choice of two different live view sensors, one of which gives you (same as on the L1 D3) 100% coverage in a size which is frankly, huge, and quite like using a medium format camera's ground glass focus screen, excepting the image is not reversed. Again, different tools for different jobs.:eek:

 

Sorry if that concept is difficult to grasp.

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Cephalotus

Cephalotus

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LOL

Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera when any APS-C DSLR has a significantly larger sensor, thus larger pixels per same pixel count, with inherently greater dynamic range and a better S/N ratio? A Nikon D40X with its superb new 18-55mm lens or a Sony Alpha with its great range of Carl Zeiss glass is a far better choice in the same price range. Twenty-five hundred for a D3 like looking through a straw? No thanks. I'll keep my D2 (and D200).

 

If you "believe" in that DR thing on dpreview you should buy a Panasonic L1 which has one of the best DR ratings on a dpreview Test so far...

Much better than many APS-C or even "fullframe" cameras.

 

The E-330 didn't do as well.

 

So maybe its not the sensor size, but most liekely the contrast function of the jpg engine what is measured as "DR" in dpreview tests...

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FastFashnReloaded

FastFashnReloaded

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If you "believe" in that DR thing on dpreview you should buy a Panasonic L1 which has one of the best DR ratings on a dpreview Test so far...

Much better than many APS-C or even "fullframe" cameras.

 

The E-330 didn't do as well.

 

So maybe its not the sensor size, but most liekely the contrast function of the jpg engine what is measured as "DR" in dpreview tests...

 

Might also be because they haven't stuffed the camera full of pixels (in that case) just to have more pixels. So, you have a modern sensor that isn't running full bore as a noise machine just to keep the world press happy.

 

Just because you can put a 350 cu in V8 into a Pinto doesn't mean you should.

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johnjs

johnjs

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So, the APS-C sensor is approximately 35% larger than the Four-Thirds conterpart, but that isn't significantly larger...? If you put the same number of pixels on each sensor, which device is going to have intrinsicly better performance?

 

" "Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera"

 

That's the same kind of moronic argument that people use in asking, "Why would you buy a rangefinder?!" Different tools for different jobs, that's why."

 

Of course I didn't say that in that context, though, did I, so that's your moronic argument, not mine.

 

I suggest ClarkVision.com for technical articles. I don't bother with DP Review.

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Riley

Riley

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So, the APS-C sensor is approximately 35% larger than the Four-Thirds conterpart, but that isn't significantly larger...? If you put the same number of pixels on each sensor, which device is going to have intrinsicly better performance?

 

" "Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera"

 

That's the same kind of moronic argument that people use in asking, "Why would you buy a rangefinder?!" Different tools for different jobs, that's why."

 

Of course I didn't say that in that context, though, did I, so that's your moronic argument, not mine.

 

I suggest ClarkVision.com for technical articles. I don't bother with DP Review.

 

I dont see 4/3rds even mentioned on the Clarkvision site

so I dont see where you can make those assertions

perhaps you can show me a link to the nMOS analysis there ?

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FastFashnReloaded

FastFashnReloaded

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So, the APS-C sensor is approximately 35% larger than the Four-Thirds conterpart, but that isn't significantly larger...? If you put the same number of pixels on each sensor, which device is going to have intrinsicly better performance?

 

" "Why would anyone buy a Four-Thirds sensor camera"

 

That's the same kind of moronic argument that people use in asking, "Why would you buy a rangefinder?!" Different tools for different jobs, that's why."

 

Of course I didn't say that in that context, though, did I, so that's your moronic argument, not mine.

 

I suggest ClarkVision.com for technical articles. I don't bother with DP Review.

 

You are trolling. As to, "I don't bother with DP Review.", it is really a pretty good site. Not perfect, but interesting.

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johnjs

johnjs

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Trolling..... no, I'm simply stating my opinion that Four-Thirds is essentially going to be a nearly dead end within the next couple years as more manufacturers develop APS-H and almost full-frame sensors. I could be wrong. That doesn't mean you can't take beautiful pictures with said cameras, as your post illustrates. But there's no compelling need for such a system when Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sigma, Sony and others all offer SLR's in the exact same price range with APS-C sensors, which can be comfortably spec.ed to the 10-12 megapixel level. Your assetion about the Digilux 3/L1 is correct: in order to maintain a decent pixel size they limited it to 7.5mp. However, recent refinements in microlenses and processing have allowed manufacturers to go for 5-micron and below pixels with very good performance. That may continue, but the laws of Physics will always still apply. It's like the aperture of a telescope; an 8"SCT is always going to be better than a 4", from an imaging, or more appropriately, observational point of view. If the 8 is the same cost as the 4, it's that much mo better. You may still prefer to use your 4" Questar for that "soul", or other heuristics you talk about, though. If your a fan of Olympus, and Four-Thirds is what they're building, great, not much more needs to be said. We're all motivated differently, and the landscape has changed since Four-Thirds arrived. Though it's (Four-Thirds) actual strategy of being a way for 2nd and 3rd tier camera companies (and I mean that in terms of market share, not quality) to produce more chips per die and thus be able to compete with the big two, or three in the digital SLR market, is a relic of a few years ago and is becoming a moot point rather quickly I fear. The same will happen with APS-C eventually. As to Riley's point about ClarkVision, I mentioned it as an excellent reference not specifically related to what we're discussing. Now, I'm off to get an iPhone.

best-John

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Guest stnami

Guest stnami

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. no, I'm simply stating my opinion that Four-Thirds is essentially going to be a nearly dead end within the next couple year
........I read that 5 years ago

 

 

Now, I'm off to get an iPhone
.......greedy bastard and it ain't even Xmas yet:D
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Riley

Riley

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........I read that 5 years ago

 

man i must see that every two weeks

yet every time i turn around the system looks better and better

 

PS. theyre talking HDR for E-P1 this time around

a lot of patents flying around on this of late

release is to be November 07

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Riley

Riley

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i think you mean small wide and fast Imants

i guess zooms carry more bulk and are a little slower at 2.8

so the two reasons are speed and bulk, size in itself isnt enough reason

 

unfortunately doesnt look as if Leica D or Olympus are stepping up to that

no other prime lenses i can think of in the range of 10-20mm appear to be adaptable to this either

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Riley

Riley

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The specification to E-P1 has been leaked from the European Business Meeting

Market projections revised, up by 100k units

E-P1 sales Nov 07

 

World’s most effective anti-shake system (Max 5 steps)

10MP High Speed Live MOS (5fps)

Live View with multi angle LCD

Dust Reduction (SSWF)

Splash proof body

Wireless flash control in 3 groups

AF performance

- Quickest and most accurate , worlds quickest with SWD lenses

- 11 AF points all cross sensor

- Better low light performance –2EV@ISO100

- Better continuous AF

 

High Speed shooting capability

(5fps, 1/8000. X=1/250)

Big viewfinder image with 100% coverage

Bigger finder magnification (x1.15) with full coverage ratio (100%)

Live View Hyper Crystal LCD Swivel LCD

 

Worlds most effective AntiShake performance

Worlds quickest precise AF performance

Wireless Flash Control

New FL-36R and FL50R Infra Red Wireless Flash Systems

Can be controlled directly via E-P1

Infrared control via 3 groups is available

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Guest stnami

Guest stnami

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.. most manufacturers are in the same boat. see the messy niggly problems the M8 has with its wides. nikon are not there, and the list goes on...........by wides I mean 28 down......this all sorta drove me back to film cameras. a heap of great choices

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Riley

Riley

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yep

going FF digital doesnt improve it for native lenses either

most of the canon wides are junk and need to be stopped down to avoid fall-off and vignetting

dont even mention CA. You see them arguing the toss over Leica or Zeiss or OM wides on FM all the time, all of it MF of course

 

since 4/3rds has comparatively better UWA performance at any aperture, a decent AF prime around 24-28mm EFL certainly would secure that ground

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Guest stnami

Guest stnami

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Consider what mediocre cameras Leica have made at times, they have done well jumping in bed with Pana and Oly, with that lots' electronic know how.... a decent digital Leica could be on the offering. Sure it needs new glass but that shouldn't be a drama, one just has to look at the D2 lens they came up with..............

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FastFashnReloaded

FastFashnReloaded

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Trolling..... no, I'm simply stating my opinion that Four-Thirds is essentially going to be a nearly dead end within the next couple years ... Now, I'm off to get an iPhone.

best-John

 

The argument from Microsoft (and Intel) went, "Why buy a Mac when you can have our box at half the price, and look, you can play games on it!"

 

Now, you are off to buy a iPhone.:eek:

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