IkarusJohn Posted July 10, 2017 Share #201 Posted July 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd have to say the endless comparisons with Sony are getting a bit old. The point is, Leica's offerings a different; more expensive, but different. They have never gone down the spec-sheet rabbit hole, preferring instead to develop properly integrated systems which work well together, and offer the best output with the most direct and well considered user interface. As Gordon also comments, Leica lenses are designed for use with Leica cameras and they work best that way; and they're very good. If you don't get that, or don't like it, that's okay; Leica isn't for you. Sony comparisons are interesting only in the sense of what is possible, but otherwise there really isn't much comparison that is of relevance. I've had the Nex-5n and the A7r, and I won't be going back there. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 10, 2017 Posted July 10, 2017 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here SL Price Reduction. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
leicatiman Posted July 11, 2017 Share #202 Posted July 11, 2017 Not much of a deal unless the $5000. price tag for the SL lens is discounted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 11, 2017 Share #203 Posted July 11, 2017 Not much of a deal unless the $5000. price tag for the SL lens is discounted! I guess a $1500 price reduction on the body just isn't enough to be excited about for you. That takes a $12,000 body and lens purchase down to $10,500, a 12.5% discount. Chump change for you, eh? I know some people who fight like crazy for a 2% discount... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 11, 2017 Share #204 Posted July 11, 2017 I have no idea why you participate in the Leica forum if you so passionately believe them to be so inferior. What a childish response. I participate in a Leica forum because I've used Leica cameras for a long time. That doesn't however blind me to the advances made by other companies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 11, 2017 Share #205 Posted July 11, 2017 What a childish response. I participate in a Leica forum because I've used Leica cameras for a long time. That doesn't however blind me to the advances made by other companies. Typical ad hominem response. You're ignored now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 11, 2017 Share #206 Posted July 11, 2017 You're ignored now.At times, this is more like a kindergarten than a discussion forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted July 11, 2017 Share #207 Posted July 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I’d say it’s more like a workplace than a kindergarten. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted July 11, 2017 Share #208 Posted July 11, 2017 Thanks to the Brexit vote and what is essentially the devaluation of the £ the discount on the SL in the UK isn't enough to tempt this remainer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted July 11, 2017 Share #209 Posted July 11, 2017 Prices are facts, and in today's crazy economics, arbitrage and E-Bay deals may make a lot of sense or be completely out of the question. The MSRP (Leica's official selling price) plus VAT (avoidable only by immediately posting outside the EU to someplace without customs duties) or local sales tax in the US (fairly easy to avoid) is only a guideline at the moment. If one's savings are in $$, it may be a different story than when one's savings are in £ or in €. The differences are not chump change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetee1972 Posted July 11, 2017 Share #210 Posted July 11, 2017 There's been a huge leap in sensor performance over the last five years. At higher ISOs the latest Sony sensors are much better than those used by Leica (and Canon) in every way, not just lower noise levels but also in terms of dynamic range and colour response. Sorry to go back to this question but can a sensor improve the results from applied gain? I thought that ISO performance, being applied gain, would be due to firmware rather than the sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 11, 2017 Share #211 Posted July 11, 2017 Sorry to go back to this question but can a sensor improve the results from applied gain? I thought that ISO performance, being applied gain, would be due to firmware rather than the sensor?I've no idea, but I do know that the Sony sensors provide better quality files at higher ISOs than the competition. Whether that matters to you will largely depend on whether you often work in very low light. I do, so I'm happy to put up with the quirks of Sony cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetee1972 Posted July 11, 2017 Share #212 Posted July 11, 2017 I've no idea, but I do know that the Sony sensors provide better quality files at higher ISOs than the competition. Whether that matters to you will largely depend on whether you often work in very low light. I do, so I'm happy to put up with the quirks of Sony cameras. Yes I think that is the product of downsampling/resizing though rather than outright sensor performance. I don't work in low light and I'm not sure why anyone really needs an ISO higher than say 6400 for stills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted July 11, 2017 Share #213 Posted July 11, 2017 Prices are facts, and in today's crazy economics, arbitrage and E-Bay deals may make a lot of sense or be completely out of the question. The MSRP (Leica's official selling price) plus VAT (avoidable only by immediately posting outside the EU to someplace without customs duties) or local sales tax in the US (fairly easy to avoid) is only a guideline at the moment. If one's savings are in $$, it may be a different story than when one's savings are in £ or in €. The differences are not chump change. Yes, as a US resident I get to pre-VAT price and compare to US plus NY sales tax 8.75% ..... Red Dot charges for shipping, Leicashop in Vienna does not. ..... anyway, even if I ended up paying a US customs duty the difference is still substantial enough to make it worth the effort. As I wrote earlier, since all prices were changed not just US this tells me Leica needs to move inventory. I suspect the SL wasn't quite the hit they were anticipating. To me its an SLR experience as opposed to a rangefinder, better for close-in//far compositions rather than left/right/above/below 2D compositions. Different, not a value a judgement and both have their place, which is why I keep watching the price. I enjoy the M for film and Q for digital but think the SL would be a better fit since it would take the M lenses..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 11, 2017 Share #214 Posted July 11, 2017 Yes I think that is the product of downsampling/resizing though rather than outright sensor performance. I don't work in low light and I'm not sure why anyone really needs an ISO higher than say 6400 for stills.It's not about downrezzing. If it was, the sensor in the A7s would be trounced by the much higher resolution offered by the A7R2 and RX1R2 when file size is equalised, and it's really not. I can think of all kinds of reasons for wanting - rather than needing - to work with an ISO of 12800, not least that interesting things happen in very low light and that low light can, in itself, be very beautiful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetee1972 Posted July 11, 2017 Share #215 Posted July 11, 2017 It's not about downrezzing. If it was, the sensor in the A7s would be trounced by the much higher resolution offered by the A7R2 and RX1R2 when file size is equalised, and it's really not. I must have read it wrong then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leica-Boy Posted July 12, 2017 Share #216 Posted July 12, 2017 I literally bought an SL less than 7 days ago. I'm livid. Leica is a fair company, depending on the original place of sale, there should a be an adjustment or just a credit, that seems fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budfox Posted July 12, 2017 Share #217 Posted July 12, 2017 Most other manufacturers drop prices after a couple of years or less, though often coinciding with release of newer models which can remain on sale with the discounted older model. It is unusual for Leica to drop prices, but I suspect that the SL was a bit overpriced (understatement of the year for some) especially when trying to establish a whole new system. I always thought they should have discounted the body any made up the revenue on the lenses. It also might have got them some better initial reviews - it's hard for a reviewer of multiple camera brands to ignore the price differential. I think the SL would have got better praise for it's advanced features and unique design if the reviewers weren't so distracted by the price premium. The more reasonable pricing of the Q at launch is a case in point. Hopefully the new price will remain as is when the eventual SL2 is released in about 2 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delrosa81 Posted July 14, 2017 Share #218 Posted July 14, 2017 In my opinion, Leica is not competing with any brands solely based on specs nor pricing. Leica doesnt work this way. As some has mentioned, its the sum of all parts. The feel of using a Leica. I recently got a Sony A7R II with the Carl Zeiss 35mm F1.4 Prime Lens. Results have so far been pretty good for my amateurish photography skills. But its just drifferent from a Leica. The feel, the perspective difference of the same scene but taken from different cameras. Price reduction or not, a Leica is still a Leica. Sent from my Camera using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert83h Posted July 14, 2017 Share #219 Posted July 14, 2017 In my opinion, Leica is not competing with any brands solely based on specs nor pricing. Leica doesnt work this way. As some has mentioned, its the sum of all parts. The feel of using a Leica. I recently got a Sony A7R II with the Carl Zeiss 35mm F1.4 Prime Lens. Results have so far been pretty good for my amateurish photography skills. But its just drifferent from a Leica. The feel, the perspective difference of the same scene but taken from different cameras. Price reduction or not, a Leica is still a Leica. Sent from my Camera using Tapatalk I bought leica sl last month ( old price). I am quite surprised by this price reduction. But i love to use leica sl. Yesterday I added leica noctilux 095 for use with leica sl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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