jmahto Posted July 14, 2017 Share #141 Posted July 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) .... My point? It is how you use the lenses. I don't need AF to shoot wildlife and I have always been a single shot photographer. Never used a fast burst in my life. But I am not against anyone else using it. So please don't attack me on that. .... Yes, I agree how you use the lenses. The following is shot using 400mm Telyt f/6.8 on Nex-6 (I find it easier to use with long lenses than M240+EVF2). I am guessing that I would have been fine with SL and I am also guessing that M10 EVF is too sluggish for this. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273822-m10-the-game-changer/?do=findComment&comment=3315351'>More sharing options...
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Ozytripper Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share #142 Posted July 14, 2017 PH, unfortunately our points of -EVF broke the Rangefinder constraints over super wide angles and longer telephotos -not wanting Legacy lenses -wanting smaller M telephotos -not wanting to carry 2 brands will not be heard maybe in a decade perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share #143 Posted July 14, 2017 Yes, I agree how you use the lenses. The following is shot using 400mm Telyt f/6.8 on Nex-6 (I find it easier to use with long lenses than M240+EVF2). I am guessing that I would have been fine with SL and I am also guessing that M10 EVF is too sluggish for this. exp_sm_20140120Sunol_bird_hike-2366.jpg Great shot. Exactly my point. I won't do birds in Flight with manual lenses. I am not that good. But I would like some long Ms for sedantry wildlike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 14, 2017 Share #144 Posted July 14, 2017 ... -wanting smaller M telephotos ... I addressed it earlier. FF telephotos are not going to be very small or light. I compared 180mm APO R with 135 APO M in earlier post. The only request Ph has that why these are not produced new. Well, that is Leica's business decision and we can all speculate the reasoning behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share #145 Posted July 14, 2017 And Guys please don't get me wrong I love my M10 to death and that is why I want to extend my photography Genre with it Like PH I have got all the lenses I want but lack some for my wider genre that's all I have 4 lenses covering 50mm, 3 covering 35mm, 2 covering 28mm how many more versions do I need? wouldn't take much research to come up with a 2X extender. That's a great start when attached to my 135mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share #146 Posted July 14, 2017 I addressed it earlier. FF telephotos are not going to be very small or light. I compared 180mm APO R with 135 APO M in earlier post. The only request Ph has that why these are not produced new. Well, that is Leica's business decision and we can all speculate the reasoning behind. "leica's business decision" I TOTALLY accept this point. A very valid point That's why we make requests and hopefully get a positive response But "go buy something else" because a Rangefinder is not made for that genre is not a valid response to me. Not in 2017 anyway. I will also accept "go buy something else" till Leica decides to make longer telephotos. by the way 450/750 is a 60% increase in weight albeit comapring a 135 with a 180mm I have had R lenses from 28mm - 280mm and they were all bigger and heavier than M lenses (sold them all as I waited too long for it to be used in new Leica system) But "go buy something else" because a Rangefinder is not made for that genre to me is not a valid response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted July 14, 2017 Share #147 Posted July 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M240 replaced the M9 offering LV on CMOS as a rangefinder & a mirrorless camera can be considered a game changer. As for M10 being the successor to M240 is more of a crystallisation and perfection effect and certainly no game changer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 14, 2017 Share #148 Posted July 14, 2017 Well, I was reading Ming's blog (I love it) and in one comment section he says that he is thinking of M10 and said "slimming few mm" makes a "massive difference to handling". Well, that is another + for M10 lovers! Enjoy. (he was responding to someone's comment on the blog post on camera critical features). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 14, 2017 Share #149 Posted July 14, 2017 Hah, Ph sees the same analogy, as I post Great men do think alike Note that the R system went all the way to 800mm, fully manual focus, no AF, no IBIS. Great lenses but..... oh the weight I mentioned in my earlier posts that carrying an R with a modular 280mm F2.8 for 3 days at the Sydney Olympics killed my back. A lovely M 200mm or 300mm a little bigger than the 135mm (like the difference between the 135mm and the 90m will be most welcome) And like you suggested ADAN an M 2X extender will be most welcome Its how one uses the lenses. Manual lenses will be less effective for Birds in flight but not in other types of nature photography. The National Geographics of the 70s and 80s have magnificent nature photographs (before AF and IS). It is how one uses ones tools Tell you a funny story. I was out shooting birds and I was focusing on this SLEEPING FLAMINGO, yes sleeping, with its head tucked under its wing. A photographer came next to me and let out a continuous high speed burst for "like forever". My guestimate - 200+ shots? The light was not changing, the wind wasn't blowing, there was no new scent in the air, the bird was still sleeping. I looked at him and he sort of gave me this look "this is how "Pros" do it" Well he certainly was no pro even though he had a Canikon Pro DSLR My point? It is how you use the lenses. I don't need AF to shoot wildlife and I have always been a single shot photographer. Never used a fast burst in my life. But I am not against anyone else using it. So please don't attack me on that. Maybe those who oppose M for wildlife should read JAAP's post on M for safari which he left a link on this thread earlier. OK to use legacy lenses bu no no to new M teles? Hmmmmm....... That story is indeed funny, but completely recognisable. I've met plenty of those types. They tend to be completely gobsmacked when my single shot with some antique setup has captured the scene better... However, sometimes one does need serious machinegunning. I could not have gotten the tongues of these two gentlemen symmetrical without a 4000K burst. (30 FPS) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Never mind the slight back focus - that is AF for you - manual is far better for wildlife. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Never mind the slight back focus - that is AF for you - manual is far better for wildlife. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273822-m10-the-game-changer/?do=findComment&comment=3315462'>More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted July 14, 2017 Share #150 Posted July 14, 2017 Never mind the slight back focus - that is AF for you - manual is far better for wildlife. I admire your ability to shrug and accept. I'd have been rather more emotional. This photograph reminds me as to why I'd rather the miss, however great or slight, was due to a direct failure on my part rather than an indirect one as the camera wasn't in the precisely right mode out of the myriad ones possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted July 14, 2017 Share #151 Posted July 14, 2017 And Guys please don't get me wrong I love my M10 to death and that is why I want to extend my photography Genre with it Like PH I have got all the lenses I want but lack some for my wider genre that's all I have 4 lenses covering 50mm, 3 covering 35mm, 2 covering 28mm how many more versions do I need? wouldn't take much research to come up with a 2X extender. That's a great start when attached to my 135mm I really think you would be quite happy with a Leica R 180 f/3.4 APO and the 2X APO extender. It is not that big of lens at all and it is a gem and the 2X APO extender is fantastic. It sounds like this would satisfy a lot of your needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 14, 2017 Share #152 Posted July 14, 2017 I admire your ability to shrug and accept. I'd have been rather more emotional. This photograph reminds me as to why I'd rather the miss, however great or slight, was due to a direct failure on my part rather than an indirect one as the camera wasn't in the precisely right mode out of the myriad ones possible. Although Jaap's picture is really good, I agree with you. It does hurt when a beautiful picture is not technically perfect (and not my fault). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share #153 Posted July 15, 2017 Nice shot Jaap. I'd prefer a nice composition with a little glitch than a technically perfect but boring shot. If i were shooting birds in flight I would certainly do a burst too. My current long telephoto setup: M10 + R adapter + 2xApo extender rom + 80-200mm + EVF works ok just bulky and heavy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share #154 Posted July 15, 2017 Sorry first time posting a photo. Hope it works Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273822-m10-the-game-changer/?do=findComment&comment=3316026'>More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share #155 Posted July 15, 2017 Sample shots taken this morning with the above setup Handheld as I was too lazy to setup my tripod and am on medication that is giving me hand tremors- probably a little soft Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273822-m10-the-game-changer/?do=findComment&comment=3316027'>More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share #156 Posted July 15, 2017 another one. Total reach of the setup is 400mm but exif only reads 200mm Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273822-m10-the-game-changer/?do=findComment&comment=3316028'>More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share #157 Posted July 15, 2017 last one Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273822-m10-the-game-changer/?do=findComment&comment=3316029'>More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share #158 Posted July 15, 2017 Shooting at 400mm with EVF on M10 is possible and not too difficult. But it would be nice to have an M 200mm lens with an M2X extender Definitely light and smaller and easier to handle than my current setup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 15, 2017 Share #159 Posted July 15, 2017 Well done! Seeing your "SLR" rig with two viewfinders (EVF and window) reminded me of this early SLR - long before my time, but I used to read ancient back issues of Pop Photography from the 1950s in the university library. http://www.mikeeckman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Asahiflex.jpg With only waist-level ttl viewing, the Asahiflex needed the window to take vertical pictures without breaking your neck trying to look through the camera sideways and upside-down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozytripper Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share #160 Posted July 16, 2017 Adan, I have the above setup before I wrote this thread. Reason is to try to free the mind from the fact that Ms are restricted to street photography, portraits and landscape. The M10 is now ready for just about any genre (probably 90% coverage). New M lenses will not steal sales from the Sl or the T. Different set of customers. I think when I mentioned nature and wildlife, to quite a few people what immediately comes to mind are diving Kingfishers, charging Elephants, Hunting Cheetahs,,,, etc etc. Hence the instant referral to DSLRs with AF tracking etc etc. The reality is that for most of us the bulk of nature and wildlife shots are more limited to more mundane nature around us and our travels where 95% can be shot on an M with telephoto functions What we call macros are really closeups and can be handled with the current Leica macro adapter I have also been in places where I just about had my 100-400mm lens glued to my camera for scenery shots. Nothing could be taken with less than 200mm due to geographical barriers and I sure would hate to pack up my M10 and watch other photographers shoot Maybe a picture will paint a thousand words. I'll just show what I mean by nature and wildlife photos that I normally shoot (and probably what most photographers' do anyway) and see if most agree that these do not need to be shot with DSLRs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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