Zeiss 21mm f/4.5 C Biogon on Leica M10

[nico1974]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Has anyone tried the Zeiss 21/4.5C on the Leica M10 yet? I really want to buy this lens again as it was perfect when I used it on film but I am curious to see how it will perform in the corners and how bad the red edges are.

 

 

[weinlamm]

For what kind of pictures? Landscape, Architecture or...?

What is important for you?

 

I have it; only took some pics with it. If you explain what is interesting for you I will have a look for pictures.

 

 

Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[nico1974]

Thanks for getting back. What I am interested in is how the corners perform at around f5.6 to f8 and whether I will have to use the flatfield plugin to correct the colour cast.

 

I take both landscapes and architecture shots so images at infinity would be great and trying to select a few leica lens profiles to see if they correct the red edges

 

Many thanks

 

Nicholas 

[cp995]

... I am curious to see how it will perform in the corners and how bad the red edges are.

 

Interesting question!

Is colorshift in the corners still an issue with the M10?

[01af]

Is colorshift in the corners still an issue with the M10?

Basically, yes. But to a significantly lesser degree than with M9 or M (Typ 240). So the C-Biogon 21 mm 1:4.5 ZM may or may not work satisfyingly on the M10 ... it definitely did not on the previous digital M models. An interesting question indeed.

[weinlamm]

Red corners; yes. But not a problem to correct.

 

Perhaps tomorrow morning I'll have some time to search. I think I have pics for you.

 

 

Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[nico1974]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Red corners; yes. But not a problem to correct.

 

Perhaps tomorrow morning I'll have some time to search. I think I have pics for you.

 

 

Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

 

 

 

Amazing thank you very much. Could you please try the 28 f2.8 ASPH 11606 and 21 f2.8 11134 profiles as they seemed to be the most effective on the M240 in correcting the red corners and any other profile you may think could work. Vielen Dank!

Edited April 2, 2017 by nico1974

[weinlamm]

Good morning,

 

here are some examples I have on my computer. Sorry; but not the profiles you expect... All are with 90/2-profil; it's the only Leica-lense I own without 6-bit from Leica. And I had forgotten to switch...   So it's all with this profil. 

 

 

First out of camera:

 

Corrected corners:

 

 

 

Second out of camera:

 

Corrected corners:

 

 

 

Third example, out of camera:

 

corrected corners:

 

 

 

Full picture:

 

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/l1000648abig2zilb0kwa1.jpg

 

 

All corrected with Capture One. But I think it's not different if you correct it via corner fix or flat field Plugin. I think it works. 

 

Corrected corners:

[nico1974]

Wow that is great. It looks like only minimal corrections are now necessary with this lens. I do regret selling mine now. Thank you so much for uploading these images!

[weinlamm]

I think it shouldn't be very difficult to get one again. 

 

I love the lense because there is nearly no distorsion with this lense. Perfect for film - or perhaps for a Monochrom (but never had tested one; but a friend has one). I was a little bit sad because of the results with my Sony A7; really bad. Worst... 

 

But now it works again with M10 (but same with M240). 

 

I think not a good as the Leica Super Elmar-M. But not too far away from it. 

[antigallican]

Basically, yes. But to a significantly lesser degree than with M9 or M (Typ 240). So the C-Biogon 21 mm 1:4.5 ZM may or may not work satisfyingly on the M10 ... it definitely did not on the previous digital M models. An interesting question indeed.

I'm intrigued by your post. I have an M9 which has just had its second new sensor. This last weekend I noticed thin red bands down the sides of a couple of files taken with the Zeiss zm 25 2.8. I'm not sure I get what is the cause of them. Do you have any light to shed (unintentional pun but now it's there!)? Thanks

[weinlamm]

I'm intrigued by your post. I have an M9 which has just had its second new sensor. This last weekend I noticed thin red bands down the sides of a couple of files taken with the Zeiss zm 25 2.8. I'm not sure I get what is the cause of them. Do you have any light to shed (unintentional pun but now it's there!)? Thanks

 

I don't know your lense - but it's all the same with all combinations. 

 

What I know, you can do your correction with:

 

Capture One - LCC

 

Flat field correction - Lightroom

 

or Cornerfix.

 

 

Perhaps there are some other ways for a correction. I'm not sure. I used in the past (M8-/M9-time) cornerfix often - since some years now Capture One (I now own the Pro-version). There you can do it very fast for a full set of pictures (export and import settings). 

 

The ground-way is allways the same. 

 

First take a correction-shoot with calibration plate (I have one from Phase One - but sometimes I use a 2mm milky plexiglas in 10x10 cm with Lee-Filter-Set; works too and is much cheaper):

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

And then correct your picture with this in your software. Finish. 

 

If you had done this some times, it's very 'easy'. 

[antigallican]

Thank you very much indeed Weinlamm. It's kind of you to take the time to explain. I do have a plain white acetate sheet and a copy of capture one 10 so I will be able to carry this out no problem.

 

edit later - I've ordered a couple of pieces of opal acetate for a princely £5 - probably better than white

Edited April 3, 2017 by antigallican

[garygraphy]

I saw someone put a white paper on a LCD display set to white and then the lens on top of it. That should work as a calibration profile as well?

[weinlamm]

I saw someone put a white paper on a LCD display set to white and then the lens on top of it. That should work as a calibration profile as well?

 

 

Not sure; never tried out. 

 

For a perfect correction it's important to have the same light as in your shoot. And I'm not sure, if you will have it with a LCD (its light is not everywhere the same; it has lamps on some places, I think). I think it's better to have a diffuse light like you get from one of this sheets. 

 

As I said: I still use a milky plexiglas-sheet, too. In 10x10 cm for one or two Euro. Most expensive was shipping from the dealer... 

 

But - tryout. Some told they took pictures of a white wall. Ok. For a first try ok; but I think it can't be perfect...

 

What I can't recommend is an cheap white-balance cap with some font on it. You will see this font in your LCC-shoot, and so in your final picture... 

So have a look for something plain. 

[uhoh7]

Just a benchmark to compare with, here is the ZM21/4.5 on Sony A7rii with latest mod by NK in Taiwan. No corner fix. Light edit in LR for color, from RAW shot by Sam Lee in HK, by me. In this mod, there is about .7mm of IR cut over the 42mp BSI sensor, nothing else.

 

NK A7r2 by Charlie Webster, on Flickr

 

I will be very interested to see this lens shot with the 21/2.8 pre-asph profile on M10.

Edited April 5, 2017 by uhoh7

[weinlamm]

Just a benchmark to compare with, here is the ZM21/4.5 on Sony A7rii with latest mod by NK in Taiwan. No corner fix. Light edit in LR for color, from RAW shot by Sam Lee in HK, by me. In this mod, there is about .7mm of IR cut over the 42mp BSI sensor, nothing else.

 

 

NK A7r2 by Charlie Webster, on Flickr

 

I will be very interested to see this lens shot with the 21/2.8 pre-asph profile on M10.

 

 

I'm not sure, what they had done at your A7-mod - but I think it's something like the Kolarivision 'thinner filter Update'. With an standard-Sony A7xx it's not possible to get such pictures. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by weinlamm

[weinlamm]

Found some of my test-images with an un-moded Sony A7.

 

You get some smear in your pictures, you can't correct:

 

 

Bigger left side:

 

 

For me with an uncorrected A7/A7 II it's unpossible to photograph. For example it's better with an Super-Elmar-M 21mm - but you still got smear in the corner (but much less than with an Zeiss 21 4.5). 

 

So for me it's an nice picture you got with your combo - but dangerous to show without explanation, that your camera isn't a normal Sony. 

 

 

I had thought about modify mine Sony, too, some time. But finally I did some other. Saved this nearly 1.000 Euro (x two cameras on my side) and bought the M10. Well done, I think today.   And my Sony I use with other lenses it works with from ground.  

[uhoh7]

I'm not sure, what they had done at your A7-mod - but I think it's something like the Kolarivision 'thinner filter Update'. With an standard-Sony A7xx it's not possible to get such pictures.

TY for the example with stock Sony, I'm surprised it's not worse, honestly.

 

You are correct, no stock A7 of any flavor can shoot the zm 21/4.5 well, nor can previous Kolari mods. I was very specific about who made the modification and the result in my post above. Kolari also has a new mod, called the "UT", which stands for ultra-thin.

 

Filter Side by side labelled by unoh7, on Flickr

 

The IR cut labeled "V4" is the new .2mm IR cut Kolari now offers for Sony A7 cameras, with the specific goal of M lens performance.

 

Here is a thread which explains these new types of mods (only available for a few months) for the sony cameras:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1465200

 

I don't post this to advocate any mod, just to answer your question and share what is now possible: with the NK type mod (not Kolari), the A7r2 can shoot the zm 21/4.5 better than either M9 or M240, but comparison to M10 will have to await more samples.

 

My dream would be to have both a M10 and A7rii with a new type mod. Both great with M glass, each having strengths the other does not. At the moment I shoot M9 and A7 Kolari v2. I use the SEM 21 myself, which even the v2 shoots pretty well.

 

I think the ZM21/4.5 is a really good test lens for digital M, since it has such steep ray angles: 44.4 degrees.

Edited April 6, 2017 by uhoh7

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[BerndReini]

Wow that is great. It looks like only minimal corrections are now necessary with this lens. I do regret selling mine now. Thank you so much for uploading these images!

 

I recently bought the Leica Super-Elmar 3.4 after reading a lot about it. It is fantastic!