Joe Mondello Posted June 20, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thankfully the people on this website know this isn't even remotely true, but I'm sure some of you have seen some of the other forums (DPR especially) where this notion seems rampant. Is it jealousy? Ignorance? Trolling? Leica-bashing? What makes people -- who don't really know what they are talking about -- talk trash like this? The best defense I've come up with so far is this (feel free to copy it or modify it if you like!) . . . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hand an M8 to a person familiar with automatic digital P&S cameras only (being sure to put the strap around their neck!). They'll probably find the power-on switch, turn it on and look at the LCD screen, then hand it back to you and say "there's no picture, I think the LCD is broken." After you show them the viewfinder, the next question they'll ask is "Where's the zoom?" After you explain that one, they might actually POINT AND SHOOT as usual without any regard to aperture, shutter speed or focus, since they are used to all three being totally automatic. When they try to play back their shot on the LCD nothing will happen because the shutter will still be open because the lens cap is still on! Then they'll hand you your camera back and say "This is too hard." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course these things have actually happened to me which is how I know! Yup, just an expensive and glorified P&S that M8! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Hi Joe Mondello, Take a look here M8 -- Just a Glorified P&S!?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jamie Roberts Posted June 20, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 20, 2007 Heh--unless of course you put a 21mm or 15mm lens on it, put it at f8, set the ISO to 640 and put it on "A" Then it is a glorified point and shoot. And thank heaven for that! I'm sick to death of knobs and buttons. I like a camera that gets out of the way and lets me make pictures. As for focus, when I give the camera to photographer friends of mine who've never used a rangefinder before, they all think it's hard, but after one or two shots their shots are sharp and regular. Then they think it's a miracle compared with trying to manually focus their AF lenses So I say the joke is on the DPreview folks (as it so often is...) And of course, I'm partly joking--I'm not saying it isn't tricky to use the M8 very well. But it is pretty easy to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted June 20, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 20, 2007 Just spent a week at bike week in Laconia NH and did just like Jamie said put it on f8 set the hyper focal distance and shoot. Works great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted June 20, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 20, 2007 Joe- I know you are not trying to stimulate the same type of thread here, but I wish that we don't spend time or energy on this here. DP review really has serious problems, always has had, but it's getting worse. After the latest round of this nonsense on DP I decided to leave the all too frequest "crapola" there behind and confine myself, gladly, to the excellent community and intelligent, relevant "conversations" we have on this forum... so...please don't bring it here! thanks....Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted June 20, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 20, 2007 Just spent a week at bike week in Laconia NH and did just like Jamie said put it on f8 set the hyper focal distance and shoot. Works great. That's ironic. This is the first summer in years when I haven't photographed at that event. We probably would have run into each other because of the M8s. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfanjpn Posted June 20, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 20, 2007 A few weeks ago I took my wife to a botanical garden here in Tokyo and of course I brought along the M8. Her comments were: "You can't do close ups?", "You have to focus it yourself?", "You spent all that money on a camera and it won't zoom?". People either get it or they don't. I'm afraid my wife, like a lot of folks in the DP forums, just doesn't get it. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfanjpn Posted June 20, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's ironic. This is the first summer in years when I haven't photographed at that event. We probably would have run into each other because of the M8s. Cheers, Sean Sean, this is way OT, but I'm a displaced Vermonter (born in Rutland, lived there for 28 years, spent 8 years in LA and 21 years in Tokyo), and I'll be going back the 3rd week in Sep. to visit the family. While I'm there, I'd love to spend some time shooting with the M8, but I've been gone so long, I don't know where to start. If you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. If you have time, a PM would be great. Thanks. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted June 20, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 20, 2007 Joe with all respect, people who have not used a rangefinder before may indeed make some of the comments you mention.But, that does not necessarily make them worse photographers, and, I love P&S cameras too, so don't really see your point. On top of that using other digital camera is also refreshing compared to the M8 which can be infuriating at times. No reason to start slagging P&S users in my opinion, but each to their own regards and happy snapping:) andy 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted June 20, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 20, 2007 To interpret the premise of the thread slightly differently, we can all air our dirty laundry. That is, people think all we do is point and shoot, irrespective of the hardware. I took some (brilliant, of course) portraits for a family member. That family member is astonished by the images and is buying 12x16 framed prints of 5 images from a portrait session, but also wants another shoot of two more persons. I will be going to that person's house next month and the suggestion was to come an hour early and do the shoot for the two other persons. I said sure and as soon as I hung up realized that I would barely get set up in that time. Certainly, there would be no chance to get into the groove and take decent images. A separate shoot is necessary, and of course there need to be no other people hanging around. I notice this "point and shoot" attitude a lot more than I used to. The old skin must be getting thinner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal Posted June 20, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 20, 2007 glorifed P&S ... the comment is inafantile, so much so that any attempt to defend against this slant would be equally as infantile ! 2 points though: 1) the irony is that as a P&S the M8 is actually amazing. with the little 28 Elmarit at F8 it really is the worlds best street P&S 2) no one actually needs an M8. A good photographer can take amazing pictures with a nokia. You can either 'see' stuff, or you can't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mondello Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted June 20, 2007 No reason to start slagging P&S users in my opinion, but each to their own Not slagging P&S users at all! Sorry if that's the impression. What gets me was the number of people on DPR who think -- and say loudly arrogantly and with disdain -- that the M8 is NOTHING MORE than a glorified P&S with image quality equalled by digital cameras costing 1/10th as much. That's all. Just offering a little "ammo" in response. And of course I know that I *can* use the M8 as the best P&S, it's just so much more than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted June 20, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 20, 2007 So, Joe, these people may be owners of equally expensive Canon rigs that have image stabilization, auto focus, and look more impressive because they are bigger and weigh more, but those are not P&S cameras? For the Canon P&S rigs, I especially like the shotgun mode (15-shot buffer) that guarantees you won't get the right shot. I think Canon's big rigs do 3-4 shots per second. I do dance photog and like to get dancers in the air. A dancer stays at the top of a leap (that position is referred to as "ballon" [2 l's?] ) for maybe 1/200 of a second or less. I know this because I shoot at 1/250 for this purpose and there is always blur in the image of the dancer. That means that the shotgun images, which are 1/4 second apart, just won't get the right image. Let's call a spade a spade -- and then forget this silly discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted June 20, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 20, 2007 LOL . Well it is the best damn P&S on the market than. It's like the old saying don't follow the guy in front of you when he drives off the bridge , otherwise you would be pretty stupid. That word seems to work here too but that maybe to harsh , how about ill informed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted June 20, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 20, 2007 Anyone who calls me stupid is ill informed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted June 21, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 21, 2007 What gets me was the number of people on DPR who think -- and say loudly arrogantly and with disdain -- that the M8 is NOTHING MORE than a glorified P&S with image quality equalled by digital cameras costing 1/10th as much. Might also have to do with the huge number (often badly processed) "casual snapshots" taken with an m8 flooding the net. Just do a search on a site like flickr ..... you will see what i mean! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwfreund Posted June 21, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 21, 2007 Might also have to do with the huge number (often badly processed) "casual snapshots" taken with an m8 flooding the net. Just do a search on a site like flickr ..... you will see what i mean! Yeah, probably mine. -bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minos Posted June 21, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 21, 2007 A few weeks ago I took my wife to a botanical garden here in Tokyo and of course I brought along the M8. Her comments were: "You can't do close ups?", "You have to focus it yourself?", "You spent all that money on a camera and it won't zoom?". People either get it or they don't. I'm afraid my wife, like a lot of folks in the DP forums, just doesn't get it. Bill Bill, Could it be that our wives are related? Same conclusions on her part: "Pffft, that manual focus is a waste of speed." or "Give me back a zoom anytime." or "So much money for camera without a decent zoom." Invariably, it raises a smile on my face. On the other hand, she admits the image quality is amazing. She even likes the design.(Well, she is a woman, after all.) End of the day, it's the photographer that makes the picture. It's just a question of how one views the world and notices things others don't. The camera is irrelevant. But the use of this discrete, robust and back-to-the-roots camera forced me to work and think differently. My photography has changed completely, and (dare I say) got a lot better thanks to the use of this rangefinder. I anticipate events better, choose better angles, better subjects. And the lack of zoom forces you to move about. And that way, you inevitably discover new angles. It's a bit like my choice of writing with a fountain pen a few years back forced me to write better. Less scribbling that I couldn't even read myself half the time. Ah well, we're all hooked, aren't we. That's why were all here day after day. "Omnia vincit perseverantia" Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted June 21, 2007 Share #18 Posted June 21, 2007 I am so happy with my M8, no review or forum thread can take this feeling away. I am certainly no Cartier Bresson, just an average amateur, but the pictures I am making are better then ever, so just for me, it is the finest camera I ever had. There is some magic, some emotion in my pictures that was never there with any other camera I had. The other camera I still have is a 1D, but the use of this camera is now restricted to making "technical" documentation. It is like with all desirable things in life, you have haters and you have lovers. Let it be so. Do not try to fight emotions with facts. These two worlds will never come together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 21, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 21, 2007 Its a lens mount and file carrier. The camera is a bucket. Bit like an R9 actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fefe Posted June 21, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 21, 2007 I am so happy with my M8, no review or forum thread can take this feeling away.I am certainly no Cartier Bresson, just an average amateur, but the pictures I am making are better then ever, so just for me, it is the finest camera I ever had. There is some magic, some emotion in my pictures that was never there with any other camera I had. ... It is like with all desirable things in life, you have haters and you have lovers. Let it be so. Do not try to fight emotions with facts. These two worlds will never come together. I can't agree more. It's been the same for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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