Weird Horizontal Flare? Leica M-D and M240?

[Future2001]

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Maybe a dumb question and I apologize in advance. So this first shot is from my old Leica M240 on a shoot for a friend. You can see the line at the top of the model's forehead. 

 

 

Then yesterday I shot with my Leica M-D, and I got the same lines. I think last time I got these lines I googled it and was satisfied with the answer. But now I can't remember what I found nor can I locate the article again. I owned my Leica M240 for over two years, and I only experienced this on this shoot and another shoot. 

 

 

 

I'm going to assume I am not the unluckiest Leica owner and this is not a sensor issue that affected two cameras. With the baby image there was a large light source overhead. Anyways any thoughts on this? Thanks for your help in advance. 

 

[pop]

Did you take them all with the same lens; which lens or lenses; did you use a lens hood?

 

I think it's rather unlikely that there is an issue with the sensor. Rather, the lens seems to suffer from flare or perhaps there's light entering between the lens and the camera body.

[adan]

First of all, remember that the picture is projected on the sensor upside down. So if you get an artifact at the top of a picture, it is occurring on the bottom of the sensor.

 

http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/camera-diagram1.gif

 

Second, remember that your lens projects an image circle that extends a long way beyond the sensor area - especially, with the very rectangular picture shape of 35mm, above and below the picture area.

 

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/cropped_sensor_view/image_circle.jpg

 

Therefore there is a fair amount of lens image (LIGHT!) just bouncing around inside the rectangular box or shutter chamber between the back of the lens and the sensor. If you have a bright light overhead in the scene (sun or indoor light), it may be outside the image, but the light will still be hitting the floor vvvv of the camera chamber, and reflecting everywhere, including onto your sensor - as flare. And yes, the inside of the shutter chamber is matte black - but that still reflects some light.

 

The "line" is due to the fact that the sensor is inset back from the rectangular opening in front of it. There is basically a shelf all around, that protects the first couple of mms of the sensor from the angled flare off the chamber floor, like a lens hood. Which you can see in this upside-down image into the front of an M. http://www.waloszek.de/m240/dust/DSC08324_900.jpg

 

Thus you get a thin strip of "normal picture" before the flare attacks as a gray-white "wash."

 

The "floor" of the metered Leicas also has some complex angles to it, surrounding the tunnels for the light meter cells. It ain't flat.

 

A lens hood will help - especially Leica's rectangular shades, which "crop" the image circle to just a rectangle only slightly larger than the sensor/shutter area, and block the "loose light" from hitting the top, bottom, and sides of the shutter chamber. Just depends on how wide your lens is (looks like 35/28?).

 

http://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Leica-Summicron-M-28mm-f2-ASPH-lens-hood-300x300.jpg

 

But the lens hood can't be perfect, since your front lens element is not infinitely small. It can't block light falling on the far side of the lens without cutting into the image itself, so there will always be a little leakage right outside the picture area - just watch out for bright lights in that area, even with a hood.

Edited March 6, 2017 by adan

[edwardkaraa]

I occasionally get this effect when shooting against the light with the Zeiss 50P.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

Did you take them all with the same lens; which lens or lenses; did you use a lens hood?

 

I think it's rather unlikely that there is an issue with the sensor. Rather, the lens seems to suffer from flare or perhaps there's light entering between the lens and the camera body.

Yes. Lens, not sensor

[Fgcm]

Ciao Future 2001,

I bet you are shooting with a 50 at f2 / f2.8 without hood, aren't you?

 

If you are, this kind of flare is visible when a strong light hits the front element from high, outside of the image.

a hood fixes the problem

 

Ciao

Franco

[Fgcm]

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This is the same flare.

Ciao

Franco

 

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Edited March 7, 2017 by Fgcm

[Future2001]

Thank you so much guys, especially Adan. Your response made things understandable for me. Greatly appreciate all the replies and help this forum has given me. 

 

To answer some questions, yes I am using the same lens just different camera bodies. I traded in my m240 for the MD a week or so ago. I am using the Zeiss 50mm f2 Planar lens. I can't remember the aperture these were shot at; the EXIF data claims they were at f4 and f4.8, but those are just estimated apertures. I could have shot this at f2 and f2.8. 

 

I do have a hood on it, but it's a small ventilated hood I purchased for one my Sony lenses. Does anyone have a better recommendation for a lens hood? 

 

Thanks again guys. 

[Fgcm]

I do have a hood on it, but it's a small ventilated hood I purchased for one my Sony lenses. Does anyone have a better recommendation for a lens hood? 

 

My hood is my left hand ;-)

 

When I shoot against the sun or I realize I could see flare, I shade the lens with my left hand. Easier than one could think, very effective and cheaper than dust.

 

Ciao

[easy_action]

Shooting almost directly into the sun today, I managed to provoke the same effect using my M-D and 50mm Summilux BC.  I was using the clip-on hood at the time, and the aperture was f/11.  Image is a jpeg saved direct from the dng with no other processing carried out.  It gave me a fright initially, but I had a hunch that the sun just outside the frame might be causing this.  Thanks to all of the previous contributors to this thread (particulaly adan) as it has reassured me that the camera is not to blame.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

[easy_action]

Or rather, the camera is 'to blame', but it is expected behaviour given the conditions!

[sblutter]

As a handbook from the 1920's says, have the light behind you...