A few months in, how is the M-D ?

[atufte]

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It's always dangerous to take things out of context, but read this statement from the Leica Rumors interview with Stefan Daniel (Director of Product Management) and Jesko von Oeyenhausen (Product Manager of Leica M) conducted by Enche Tjin:

 

http://leicarumors.com/2017/01/29/leica-m10-interview-why-no-video-where-is-the-typ-label-compressed-dng-files-and-more.aspx/

 

Q: ISO dial – How did that come about?

 

A (Jesko): The Leica M-D was the camera that show us this workflow earlier. prove to be very effective because of the ISO dial.

 

Note that the M-D is referred to in the past tense. And considering products as experiments—something I strongly advocate—the M-D can be considered a very fruitful experiment. As an M-D owner I don't know how I'll respond to the M10, but If I'm going on a trip and can take two cameras, I won't be surprised if I reach for my Q and my (soon to be) M10. And at that point the M-D will become a cherished artifact that I'll take out once in a while, to fondle or use as a back-up.

 

 

 

Hmm, mr Stefan Daniel must have been tired or something because the first camera with the ISO wheel on the back was not the M-D but the M60... :-) 

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[edw]

Hmm, mr Stefan Daniel must have been tired or something because the first camera with the ISO wheel on the back was not the M-D but the M60... :-) 

 

Yes, for sure—as far as digital Ms go…—but the M-D was a mass-market product by Leica standards, whereas the M60 was not. A product is not simply the final object; it is the entire supply and distribution chain. And it is the price. The price of the M60 was about 16K USD. A ridiculous vanity product priced for Gordon Gecko and sheiks is not going to help you learn much about what people really want.

 

I was reading over in the M-A sub-forum the other day about how it's the MP, (unused) battery compartment and all. Some mentioned that this took the bloom off the rose for them. I agree. And similarly, I remember reading before I got the M-D, about how a "real" M-D would be as thin as a film M, because you wouldn't need the space for the screen. And with the release of the M10, we've learned that the M10 got some of its thinness by shedding the requirement to record video, so the video-less M could have been even thinner.

 

What I'm getting at here is that while I love my M-D, I don't think I'd buy an M10-D, just as I'd probably buy an MP over an M-A—though I'd probably prefer a clean M4—because the M10-D would not be a purpose-designed-from-a-clean-sheet-of-paper "pure photography" camera completely free of the M10's requirements list. And so to me an M10 is more true to itself than a hypothetical M10-D would be. A M10 Monochrom, on the other hand, would probably be entirely free M10 platform legacy baggage. The only thing I can think of is that an M10M's ISO dial should probably go to 12.8K or 25K, if the goal is to have all the entire non-"PUSH" ISO range on the dial.

 

Is it understandable that the M-D is, given Leica's constraints, what it is? Yes, totally. But do these issues, as an M-D owner, float in the back of my head? Yes, absolutely.

[kkonkkrete]

The M-D is the closest any digital camera I have used gets to the experience of film, without the downsides of film.  It's glorious.  If you are drawn to the Leica M, the M-D is, for me, the true M experience.  When I'm shooting with it, I'm thinking about nothing other than the content of the image.  It's great!

[wattsy]

The M-D is the closest any digital camera I have used gets to the experience of film, without the downsides of film. 

 

 

The problem for me is that the M-D doesn't have any of the upsides of film either so, whilst it is a product that I once hankered after, it is no longer something I would currently consider. In truth, if I was back in the market for a digital M camera, the M10 feels much more like the digital equivalent of a classic film M body like the M6, even with the screen on the back. The view through the finder is especially glorious.

[Morry]

I am very happy with my M-D so I don't need to come to the forum often to see what is happening in Leica world.

It took two weeks for me to realize M10 was out.

 

Really, once I made decision to go with this one in May 2016, making complaints has lost its meaning because the camera stands not for features and convenience anyway.

Lack of LCD has never been a regret and I no longer have so much interest for higher ISO or megapixels (i.e. digital technology in general).

The camera is just what it is and  (besides M2/M7) our relationship has been the simplest and the most straight forward than ever.

 

In my opinion, despite of generally low popularity with regard to its uniqueness, amongst current users their loyalty to the concept must be considerably high.

It is the niche of the niche product and if I (may be we?) ever have something to wait that should be next D model. (Slimmer body is somewhat appealing).

 

Hopefully they will someday update M-D as well, and if that would ever come true I am quite sure many of the current M-D users will go for it at least.

May be making it limited run should be convincing enough for Leica because they already know how many M-D users are there at this moment.

 

Meanwhile M-D will be a keeper and if I need something modern that will be an addition, never be a replacement.

(Using SL together with M-D might make more sense than using M10)

[kkonkkrete]

The problem for me is that the M-D doesn't have any of the upsides of film either so, whilst it is a product that I once hankered after, it is no longer something I would currently consider. In truth, if I was back in the market for a digital M camera, the M10 feels much more like the digital equivalent of a classic film M body like the M6, even with the screen on the back. The view through the finder is especially glorious.

 

 

Haha, I'm sure I could get by with an M10 just as well!  They are all great cameras.  I have no regrets whatsoever with the M-D, on the contrary, I'm enjoying photography more than ever.  For me film really comes into its own at 6x6, but my Norita camera is so bulky, I find I rarely have it with me when I want.  The M-D makes me shoot like I do what I'm shooting 35mm film.  Love it.

[asiafish]

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I bought my M-D last month, just as the final specs of the M10 leaked out and older Ms started hitting the market gently used.

My M-D came in like-new condition with only 572 clicks for $4800, and so far I've added about 2500 more to its tally.  It is by far the most fun I've ever had with a color camera, and right up with the original CCD M Monochrom and fit M5 as my favorite camera period.

 

M10 is interesting and maybe eventually I'll get one, but an SL is a more likely addition as it would only be for precision focusing of the Noctilux and 135mm lenses as for anything else, I just prefer the rangefinder.

[B&WRulezz]

Dreaming about M-D for a last 8 years (till m8.2 times, i didn't understand what for i need screen for rangefinder camera with manual focus) and Leica made the camera of my dream. Its the only camera i really like and the only one for me to buy. Hope it will be produced for such a long time that i can buy it or its succesor))) i don't interested in 12<megapixels and iso more than 6400. Its simple,its perfect.

[Photon42]

Just wondered guys/girls

I am still thinking of buying one of these

 

After a few months of ownership (+/-) do you still love it ?

 

Yes I do, indeed. But this is also not my only digital camera. Obviously not the best camera for macro and more complicated flash work, but for a walkabout camera, it is just wonderful. I am very fond of clean design. Black lacquered finish, ISO dial, grippy leatherette. Each time I grab the M-D, I smile. Absolutely no issues with wrongly exposed digital  negatives. Seems the way it meters is precisely how I expect it to be.

[ramarren]

...

Is it understandable that the M-D is, given Leica's constraints, what it is? Yes, totally. But do these issues, as an M-D owner, float in the back of my head? Yes, absolutely.

No such issues here. I've decided that the right thing for me to do is to sell off my M-P 240 body and buy a second M-D, new, while I still can. No other camera has inspired joy as much as the M-D in quite a long time. It's just right, just the way it is, and needs nothing.

[TheKidWantsTechno]

To me the MD is almost the perfect Leica rangefinder. A few years back I sold all of my digital camera equipment (Nikon DSLR's) and bought a Leica M6 TTL rangefinder. I wanted to go back to the basics so I made a decision to shoot film and learned how to develop B/W film. I did that for a year and loved it. I then upgraded to different digital M cameras and when the M 60 was introduced I fell in love. Obviously I didn't buy it but I was hopeful that Leica would come out with a production version of that camera. I bought the M-D a few months ago when I found a great deal online. I was a bit unsure how I would react to not having a display but I simply love it.

 

Honestly it's not that different than any other digital camera. If the lightning is difficult and the situation allow it I'll just take 4-5 frames. I have used it intensely the last few months and I have only taken a few frames that was totally unusable. Most people who buy the M-D have many years experience with previous Leica rangefinders most people are used to Leica's light metering and how to expose well.

 

I can highly recommend the M-D. To me the process of shooting the M-D, like any other film camera, is very rewarding.

[ramarren]

Follow up after a conversation with my Leica dealer: According to him, the M-D typ 262 is still in the Leica catalog, still in production, and he has had no difficulty obtaining them for his inventory. He has several in stock at this time, and believes that he will be able to replenish stock for the foreseeable future. 

 

I'm a little torn. I love the M-D—it has become my favorite of all M bodies past and present—and would like to have a second as backup. BUT, I'm not doing any particular shooting at present that really requires me to have a backup body; it's just old habit tickling my brain, saying: 'I am more comfortable when I have an exact backup duplicate body just in case something happens.' After thinking about it for a good long week, I think the fact that there seem to be plenty of new M-Ds to go around reduces the anxiety of getting a second right now. And my current M-D is in perfect shape, et cetera ...    

 

That said, I do think it's time to sell the M-P because I'm simply not using it at all anymore. The more I've thought about it, it seems sensible thing to do is to rationalize my gear by trading off the M-P body, the X, and the CL body, along with a couple of my older R-system long lenses, in order to fund an SL90-280mm lens. Then, later on, I can sell off other gear to fund another M-D if I feel that the backup is really necessary. 

 

One thing's for sure in any event: the M-D is my M for now and the foreseeable future. 

[pico]

'I am more comfortable when I have an exact backup duplicate body just in case something happens.'

 

I know that feeling. In the Seventies when I was a staff news photographer I would buy two of any camera that I found exceptional, used one to death and left the other one in storage - for many years, usually replacing the wrecked one with a used item. During a recent consult with my oncologist;  talking about life in general he said, "Sometime soon you should think of how long you are going to live." Oi! I have a shameful glut of gear to divest! Lately I've been selling at the original, pre-inflation prices, for example my proudest button rewind M2 to a good fellow of this group.

 

I'm going to make it a fun project. Ageing has liberating effects, then yer dead.

.

[ramarren]

I know that feeling. In the Seventies when I was a staff news photographer I would buy two of any camera that I found exceptional, used one to death and left the other one in storage - for many years, usually replacing the wrecked one with a used item. During a recent consult with my oncologist;  talking about life in general he said, "Sometime soon you should think of how long you are going to live." Oi! I have a shameful glut of gear to divest! Lately I've been selling at the original, pre-inflation prices, for example my proudest button rewind M2 to a good fellow of this group.

 

I'm going to make it a fun project. Ageing has liberating effects, then yer dead.

 

 

My favorite quote on this subject is from Love and Death with Woody Allen: "Sex and Death, the two great one-time life experiences. But after Death I'm not nauseous."  

 

I've been poking about at the edges of 'how long I am planning to live' for a year or so, as I prepared for retirement. I'm now fairly confident I have adequate sources of funding to keep me going and reasonably independent for another thirty years—into my early nineties—and maybe even a little beyond that if the machinery holds up.

 

But do I really want to be trucking all the crap around with me for another thirty years? NO WAY! Better to hand off the amusing bulk of it to other, younger people now so that they can enjoy it, and I can enjoy watching them enjoy it, seeing what they produce with it. That will do more to keep my young and going than just holding onto gold like King Midas. 

 

Age is certainly liberating. I no longer feel so many needs to do, and do, and do as I once did. I'm fine to just sit and think for a day, or a week, if I feel like it. It's a different world when you're not rushing through it under pressure all the time. 

[pico]

My favorite quote on this subject is from Love and Death with Woody Allen: "Sex and Death, the two great one-time life experiences. But after Death I'm not nauseous."  

 

Woody Allen also said, "I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there when it happens."

 

I deeply appreciate your thoughts, Godfrey. We have worked long and hard to be where we are. Enjoy!

.

[Exodies]

I read somewhere that death is the price we paid for sex. Before we swapped genetic material we lived forever (baring accidents).

[kkonkkrete]

haha, if by 'we' you mean prokaryotes 

[PhotoEd]

In answer to the original poster's question: I absolutely love my M-D! Not interested in any other digital gear anymore. I've owned and used more than 86 camera's in my life and as a digital camera this is what I was waiting for.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[BJN]

How do you format the SD card for the M-D?

I have downloaded the manual but did not find any instructions.

 

Thinking of buying the M-D or maybe the M10, prefer the M-D if the image quality is as good as the M10.

[ramarren]

How do you format the SD card for the M-D?

I have downloaded the manual but did not find any instructions.

 

Thinking of buying the M-D or maybe the M10, prefer the M-D if the image quality is as good as the M10.

 

 

The M-D has no in-camera mechanism for formatting cards or deleting exposures because it has no in-camera mechanism to review the exposures stored on a card. You format SD cards for the M-D in your computer. I recommend using SD Card Formatter from sdcard.org. It's available for macOS and Windows, is free, and does the best job. 

 

What is usually implied when people look at the "image quality" of a particular camera is 'How good is the camera's built-in JPEG engine?' The M-D creates only raw files so you must have some sort of computer to render its exposures to a final, viewable form; the M-D has no JPEG engine in it beyond the minimal requirements of making the thumbnails that are embedded in the raw files. This makes the evaluation of the M-D's "image quality" ... or performance ... more complex than considering the performance of the M10 because how the raw files are processed to a viewable RGB image is in many ways just as important as how well the camera functions in capturing the image. 

 

Simplifying this comparison by considering performance from a raw perspective, the M10 sensor has about two stops more sensitivity than the M-D—meaning that M-D images captured at ISO 3200 will look about equivalent to M10 images captured at ISO 12500 from a noise/dynamic range perspective. If your photography has you always shooting in this upper range of ISO settings, then the M10 is the superior camera: it has newer, better technology. But if your photography is made at ISO 200 to 1600, you'll likely see little to no difference in the images between the two cameras since that's well within the range of both sensors to achieve their full dynamic range and very low noise. This simplification assumes equal quality camera calibration profiles and equal skills in good image processing tools to render the viewable results.