digitalfx Posted January 25, 2017 Share #41 Posted January 25, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) used prices for the SL will rise steadily once the clamour for the M10 has eased off a bit. I hope so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Hi digitalfx, Take a look here M10 or SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BigBabyEarl Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share #42 Posted January 25, 2017 I really appreciate everyone chiming in. I'm feeling like the difference is mostly the AF features of the SL and its more robust build. I've read Sean Reads review and can see the differences. I'll respect his pay website, but I think we all know its a subtle difference. I can't decide if they compliment or compete. For now, there aren't any OMFG lenses that are only SL mount. The 50 1.4 is big and slow. The zoom is really useful for work and has great image quality. Maybe when the 75 and 35 come out a clearer decision can be made. I just know this, walking around with an SL and a M lens is significantly less comfortable than walking around with a M and the same lens. Ugh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikewest Posted January 25, 2017 Share #43 Posted January 25, 2017 Other advantage for the SL: - battery capacity - no black out (with EVF) - M lenses don't need to be calibrate with the camera BUT: the M10 has the OVF and is lighter (about 200 g). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 25, 2017 Share #44 Posted January 25, 2017 There's no chance I will dump the SL, but I won't simply dump the M240 either. Any change would be to replace the M240 with the M10 (unlikely) or a successor. The difference between the Ms and the SL is much more than just AF. They just have different raisons d'etre and are designed accordingly, as a whole: the SL, with its versatile zooms (including the 90-280), fast AF, WYSIWYG framing, clear EVF with full information, OIS etc is intended for a particular type of use - planned, organised shooting for portraiture, events, performance etc. The M is intended for a different type of use - travel, documentary, street, discreet occasions and social. Both are pretty good at landscape. Not everyone will want or can afford both, and I'm certainly not claiming that Leica has made exactly the right design choices for either camera (a tilt screen on the SL would make it much easier for macro, still life and product photography, for example). But IMO the M series and the SL are from different (overlapping) families, and your choice should depend much more on your type of photography than whether one has AF or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 25, 2017 Share #45 Posted January 25, 2017 Have you seen the size of the SL viewfinder? Let me give you a hint: The top cover of the M camera houses the rangefinder and optical viewfinder. You cannot put the SL viewfinder on top the M camera. A M-EVF model would be different, and the shape of the body would separate from the canon of the M system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted January 25, 2017 Share #46 Posted January 25, 2017 The high-res (4.4 MP) EVF of the SL needs more space than the "average" (2.3 MP) EVF in other cameras. So even in the current mirrorless cameras it is not possible to simply upgrade by exchanging it. So it could not be simply put into an existing Sony camera. (The body would need to be redesigned.) This is probably the reason why no other mirrorless has the same EVF (until now, more than a year after introduction). Closest is the Panasonic GH5 with a 3.7 MP EVF and the Q. Much less could it be placed in a M camera, where there is no empty/unused space at all. (not even for a conventional EVF). That's why all M's have an external EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted January 25, 2017 Share #47 Posted January 25, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I really appreciate everyone chiming in. I'm feeling like the difference is mostly the AF features of the SL and its more robust build. I've read Sean Reads review and can see the differences. I'll respect his pay website, but I think we all know its a subtle difference. I can't decide if they compliment or compete. For now, there aren't any OMFG lenses that are only SL mount. The 50 1.4 is big and slow. The zoom is really useful for work and has great image quality. Maybe when the 75 and 35 come out a clearer decision can be made. I just know this, walking around with an SL and a M lens is significantly less comfortable than walking around with a M and the same lens. Ugh. The SL 90-280 is such a "OMFG" lens, maybe you simply have never used it ? For me the best lens I ever tried. And the EVF is such a "OMFG" device. (The Summilux 50 is just as good as the famous Apo50, only brighter, no "OMFG" ? The AF is fast, but not as exceedingly fast as the two zooms). I hope there will be a "OMFG" macro lens sooner or later (at least as good as the "OMFG" Apo Macro Elmarit-R 100), and there will probably soon be a "OMFG" SL 16-35 zoom. Others think that the new slimness of the M10 is such a "OMFG" feature. Or the missing video knob. But I prefer the "fat" old M246. Simply buy both then you stop automatically telling negative things about the other. (Having two children would you feel proud telling bad things about one while praising the other ?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent M10 Posted January 25, 2017 Share #48 Posted January 25, 2017 I just know this, walking around with an SL and a M lens is significantly less comfortable than walking around with a M and the same lens. Ugh. I went from the M9-P to the S2 to the 006, and then 007. I recently returned to the M, buying an MD and now putting in an order for the M10 (sold the S2 and am selling the 006). While I love the quality of the S system, the M is just downright fun. It's nothing to sling on your shoulder and carry around with you all day long. And the manual lenses? They're a heap of fun too. No waiting for the lens to figure out focus or looking like you're taking aim at someone. It's fast, quick, light, and the quality is right up there for 99% of the print sizes I shoot. Will never give up the M again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2017 Share #49 Posted January 25, 2017 Yes I have just decided to buy the M10 and I am selling my SL. The last M I had was a M6. Have kept my M & R glass. No X1D now, I decided against it. The M10 controls persuaded me. Just the feel of the Leica, the rangefinder that even I can focus with now, The focus magnification and peaking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 25, 2017 Share #50 Posted January 25, 2017 used prices for the SL will rise steadily once the clamour for the M10 has eased off a bit. I doubt that. Rising used prices is a thing of the past now that there are so many choices and everyone knows to wait for the P-version of any camera release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillo Posted January 25, 2017 Share #51 Posted January 25, 2017 The top cover of the M camera houses the rangefinder and optical viewfinder. You cannot put the SL viewfinder on top the M camera. A M-EVF model would be different, and the shape of the body would separate from the canon of the M system. It's just an illustration of the relative sizes. If you want an EVF-only compact camera don't expect the SL viewfinder in it. It will have to be much smaller, and, obviously, not as good. The Leica Q was a clean design, it didn't even have to use the M-mount. Still, the Leica Q and the Leica M aren't that much different in size and shape, so I wouldn't expect an EVF-only M-mount compact camera to be much different either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 26, 2017 Share #52 Posted January 26, 2017 The top cover of the M camera houses the rangefinder and optical viewfinder. You cannot put the SL viewfinder on top the M camera. A M-EVF model would be different, and the shape of the body would separate from the canon of the M system. As I understand it, the SL EVF was never considered for the M10 as it is just too big (source, Stefan Daniel). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted January 26, 2017 Share #53 Posted January 26, 2017 Being an SL owner, with some M glass, my question in regards to the M10 is how much easier it to focus then the current M240/262?? I don't wear glasses and im on the fence now. I am still considering picking up a used M240 or a used M262 for half the price of a new M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidio1111 Posted January 26, 2017 Share #54 Posted January 26, 2017 Being an SL owner, with some M glass, my question in regards to the M10 is how much easier it to focus then the current M240/262?? I don't wear glasses and im on the fence now. I am still considering picking up a used M240 or a used M262 for half the price of a new M10. I have the SL and owned the 240 and now the M10. I think the M10 is much easier to focus than the 240. In my two days of use I found it to be about equal to the SL. The visoflex is pretty close to the SL in actual practice. Resolution not quite as good and a bit of lag but wayyyy better than the 240. I think the edge enhancing focus aid is better on the M10 than the SL. I did side by side tests shooting the M10 and SL and focus hit range was identical. I also did side by side with the M10 using rangefinder and viewfinder. The rangefinder on the M10 is easier to use than on the 240. Hit rate was almost the same, slight edge to viewfinder mostly with the Nocti. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted January 26, 2017 Share #55 Posted January 26, 2017 Have you seen the size of the SL viewfinder? Let me give you a hint: Looks a little... clunky. But what could it look like if the optical range/viewfinder were removed and that space was used to house components similar to those of the new "visoflex" EVF? Maybe that could be done within the existing M form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 26, 2017 Share #56 Posted January 26, 2017 When I saw that first post I froze.... then thought, no, Grillo must be winding us up... no one can be that daft... don't rise to it... and I didn't! And I've been proud of that moment for two days now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phongph Posted February 19, 2017 Share #57 Posted February 19, 2017 Hi All! It is interesting issue! I am a SL owner and studying on M10! Have a nice day! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted February 19, 2017 Share #58 Posted February 19, 2017 I just did the exact same thing. Selling the SL now as the M10 arrived Friday. The SL is very nice, but I like to keep a camera with me 24/7 and I really missed my M. (I sold the M240 to get the SL) The new M10 is the best digital Leica yet...love it. The only thing you will regret is the money your going to lose selling the SL. Used prices are extremely low. How do you find the EVF blackout with the new M firmware? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 19, 2017 Share #59 Posted February 19, 2017 How do you find the EVF blackout with the new M firmware? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't use the EVF that much, but the blackout for me is completely acceptable. If you're a burst mode freak and need AF lenses, I'd not recommend the M10 (or any rangefinder). If you like RF photography, are happy with manual lenses, and have an occasional need for EVF (with the advantage on the M10 that it swivels - really helpful for macro and other odd angles) then the M10 is a better camera than the SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 19, 2017 Share #60 Posted February 19, 2017 The SL 90-280 is such a "OMFG" lens, maybe you simply have never used it ? For me the best lens I ever tried. And the EVF is such a "OMFG" device. (The Summilux 50 is just as good as the famous Apo50, only brighter, no "OMFG" ? The AF is fast, but not as exceedingly fast as the two zooms). I hope there will be a "OMFG" macro lens sooner or later (at least as good as the "OMFG" Apo Macro Elmarit-R 100), and there will probably soon be a "OMFG" SL 16-35 zoom. Others think that the new slimness of the M10 is such a "OMFG" feature. Or the missing video knob. But I prefer the "fat" old M246. Simply buy both then you stop automatically telling negative things about the other. (Having two children would you feel proud telling bad things about one while praising the other ?) For macro have you tried the S 120 f/2.5? I have thought that ought to be an awesome lens even on the SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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