Wrong turn for the M10?

[albertknappmd]

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it makes sense to me; after a respectable wait, I'll probably get one. Regards, Ron

same with me....

[dkCambridgeshire]

If the thinner body required using a smaller battery and video was deleted to save power then one could deduce that the thinner body drove removal of video. Video and live view in general use a lot more power than optical viewfinder use alone based on my experience with cameras of a different brand that have LV and vid. The thinner body may have enabled the better viewfinder as well as the thinner feel that IMHO is a real plus for the M10 based on experience comparing my M8 with various film Leicas, M and screw mount. By extension then the smaller battery led to a better viewfinder. The M10 battery may be larger than the M8 battery so may be an improvement of what I have ????

 

 

 

Is it not also a fact that had the M10 specification included video, it would run 'hotter' … especially if 4K video was included. Thus with video, the camera would have required efficient heat dissipation which would be better enabled by a larger / thicker body than a thinner type with cramped interior components. Thus maybe offering the required thin body (to tempt buyers) precluded offering video - in order that heavy professional video use (especially 4K video) would not cause  overheating.

 

dunk 

[digitalfx]

Not so sure about this. The resolution of live view is different than the resolution captured on the SD card. Streaming video to an SD card might mean more processing power than streaming to the lcd or evf, and as a result more heat. Is the processing power available in the M10 and can it cope with the extra heat generated or extra battery drain from a already smaller battery?

 

I have not the answer but I do not believe it is as simple as because LV is available video should be available too.

 

 

 

Exactly. Just because you have live view doesn't mean you automatically have video.

Where do you add the mic, the hdmi, the audio input in this body? This body is completely full...you can feel it when you pick up the M10, it is very dense. Then finally how do you deal with the added heat dissipation and power requirements of video?

 

The M240 is an example of what type of M body we would have with video.

As a filmmaker, I would love video more than anyone on this M...but I am so happy with this tiny little M10, that I'm willing to give it up rather than have another M240.

[rramesh]

The rangefinder offers a unique photographic experience and there are many like me, who prefer it to any other technology, even though alternatives like SLR or mirrorless continue to evolve and develop.

 

Think of a hi-fi system where you are playing LPs on a turntable. It needs a different amplifier, speakers and other components for ideal pairing and to give you the best audio experience. Sure there are those who will use music streaming and CDs as alternatives. But would want a turntable that also allows you to slot in an iPhone?

 

This is where I like the strategy of Leica to preserve and enhance the M experience while developing other platforms like the Q and SL.

 

Rather than ask for video, OV+EVF and other add-ons to the unique rangefinder experience, users if they truly need these, should explore the other platforms that offer their needed 'bells and whistles'.

 

For me, it's the M9-P for now. It gives me all functionality that I need and use regularly, without any superfluous functions. ISO 160-640 enables me to capture 95% of the pictures perfectly and another 4% with Lightroom post processing. Of course there is always the 1% opportunity and this is where the M10 fits in nicely as a replacement or alternate body.

[waterlenz]

Is it not also a fact that had the M10 specification included video, it would run 'hotter' … especially if 4K video was included. Thus with video, the camera would have required efficient heat dissipation which would be better enabled by a larger / thicker body than a thinner type with cramped interior components. Thus maybe offering the required thin body (to tempt buyers) precluded offering video - in order that heavy professional video use (especially 4K video) would not cause  overheating.

 

dunk 

This is a possibility but since the exterior of the camera is metal it could be (or is?) used as a heat sink. Maybe better here in the frozen north :->> as the outside of the body is cool except where I am holding it.  Would a thinner body make the external body more available as a heat sink, e.g., due to slightly shorter distance to the surface?

 

Cameras that I have do get warm doing video (Canon) - the cards are quite warm when they get swapped out (often with vid) as well as the camera back - the rear display has felt warm - so at least some heat loss from the rear surface.

[Bill Livingston]

The point is, video from the sensor is streamed to Live view, that what live view is... as far as processing power is concerned, there is more than enough, the M10 uses the Maestro II processor, the same as the SL.

 

But this is missing the point. The decision had already been made to remove video recording to the SD card.

 

This is a chicken and egg argument... and therefore it's illogical.

 

You decide to make the camera smaller. You also know that the majority of your customers don't use the video function in their 240 series cameras, so it's probably safe to remove that as an ability.

 

How do you make the camera smaller? You increase the mount a millimetre or two, you decrease the space behind the back by no longer stacking circuit boards, gaining another millimetre or two. You then have to decrease the battery size so it fits in the case, so that makes it thinner and lower capacity, but you are not processing so much and nor do you need to power any audio recording so you are not draining the battery quite so much, which goes a small way to recover some of that capacity... minimal really, (especially as most people using the camera will only use live view when using the EVF... which obviously in turn uses power... but I'm sure fewer M10 owners will use live view than even M240 users).

 

It's all very obvious.

 

The M10 is a perfect upgrade for M8 and M9 users, and a good upgrade for M240 users who don't use live view very often, never use video, and have decided an M8, M9 and M240 are just too wide compared to their film M (because the M8, M9 and M240 are all about the same size... if you ignore the built in thumb rest and roller wheel...).

 

And before anyone starts to argue about it, remember that the M10 is claimed by Leica to be 3.5mm thinner than the previous M digitals - yet I have seen people on here claim 3.5mm difference between an M9 and an M240 before now...!

 

See what I mean about illogical?

 

Unfortunately, facts tend to be dull, and people respond more to emotional arguments than logical arguments.

 

Does an M240 FEEL bigger than an M9? To some, obviously. But not really.

 

Is the M10 actually smaller, width wise than the three digital M's that preceded it?

 

Yes...

 

That's all that matters... and it's why the M10 will be very popular with members here. It's exactly what the majority wanted.

[cookedart]

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While the shooting rate is not really high on necessary improvements, overall operational speed improvements are welcome. I've used m240 in live shoots and hit the buffer ceiling and had to pause to wait for the camera to keep up. I don't ever need the full fps the camera can shoot, but the faster rate the m10 offers means it'll keep up if I'm shooting a number of shots in succession.

[pop]

The point is, video from the sensor is streamed to Live view, that what live view is... as far as processing power is concerned, there is more than enough, the M10 uses the Maestro II processor, the same as the SL.

This is but one of the many points. Another point is that the quality of the signal delivered by the sensor for live view need not be the same as  for quality video recording. Using a sensor which is not even capable of delivering a 4k video signal or no video signal for any length of time can influence the board layout, the selection of peripheral chips, the impedance of the power supply, the management of the storage card and on and on.

[pop]

.... But would want a turntable that also allows you to slot in an iPhone?....

I would not. I would not even touch a turntable with a stick which boasted an USB socket or a storage card slot.

 

But then, I would not want an amplifier incapable of accepting audio signals from a solid state digital recording device, a CD player or, indeed, any DAC.

[IkarusJohn]

I would not. I would not even touch a turntable with a stick which boasted an USB socket or a storage card slot.

 

But then, I would not want an amplifier incapable of accepting audio signals from a solid state digital recording device, a CD player or, indeed, any DAC.

Zounds! Whatever next?

[LocalHero1953]

This is a possibility but since the exterior of the camera is metal it could be (or is?) used as a heat sink. Maybe better here in the frozen north :->> as the outside of the body is cool except where I am holding it.  Would a thinner body make the external body more available as a heat sink, e.g., due to slightly shorter distance to the surface?

 

Cameras that I have do get warm doing video (Canon) - the cards are quite warm when they get swapped out (often with vid) as well as the camera back - the rear display has felt warm - so at least some heat loss from the rear surface.

Many here will remember the M240 lockup/freeze faults that plagued the camera for the first couple of years. We never heard the true cause, but it was eventually sorted by a combination of firmware upgrades and shutter replacements. I suspect it was a combination of interacting design weaknesses, one of which was temperature related, and another was a vulnerable shutter mechanism.

If (and I'm speculating) the introduction of LV and video to a densely packed body for the first time was one of the sources of greater heat, one can understand Leica's willingness to jettison video from an even more densely packed body as a way of avoiding future problems.