microview Posted January 19, 2017 Share #21 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Level might get re-instated in a firmware fix? It's such a basic thing these days and I find it really helpful. Let us hope so. But a shame to lose this feature in a new M (I find it invaluable in the Q for architecture). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Hi microview, Take a look here The little things we lose with the M10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
microview Posted January 19, 2017 Share #22 Posted January 19, 2017 Just buy a spirit bubble for the accessory shoe, they do the same job. I have one from Cosina/Voigtlaender which is great. Cheers, Andy Yes you can do this with a tripod, but not to have it as an integral feature say using an EVF…………………... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajitmenon Posted January 19, 2017 Share #23 Posted January 19, 2017 Is it a confirmed fact that the horizon level has been taken out? That would be a pity as this is the first M that allows magnified focus check all across the frame which is invaluable for landscape work and the horizon level woks hand-in-hand with that! Also, out of curiosity, is there an option to switch off long exposure noise reduction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 19, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 19, 2017 The machine gun approach really works only with proper sports cameras that shoot 6 - 10 FPS A friend is a retired pro photographer who did a lot of sports photography (in fact he has three Pulitzers). I worked with him on the sidelines a few times. He never shotgunned! The motor drive simply allowed him to keep the camera to his eye without having to lever advance. (He was left-eyed, too.) I swear he lived 1/250th of a second in the future. Damn he was good. (I sucked!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 19, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 19, 2017 It's a bit like composing while cropping, isn't it? Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned, but chosing the right lens, chosing the perspective you want and timing your shot is part of the critical skills you acquired. Blazing away with a fast camera, and then correcting everything on a computer screen doesn't seem the same. Perhaps I'm getting old - new fangled things like zooms and film cannisters ... what's the world coming to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 19, 2017 Share #26 Posted January 19, 2017 Is it a confirmed fact that the horizon level has been taken out? That would be a pity as this is the first M that allows magnified focus check all across the frame which is invaluable for landscape work and the horizon level woks hand-in-hand with that! Also, out of curiosity, is there an option to switch off long exposure noise reduction? Doesn't look like. Nothing in the menu. This would have been welcome with in-built interval timer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted January 19, 2017 Share #27 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the camera hardware includes some sort of tilt measure component on the main board or elsewhere then it's indeed a matter of firmware fix. If not then the GPS in the add-on EVF might provide such functionality. I would imagine there is an accelerometer on board to record camera orientation in the EXIF data, that's the only hardware you would need for a level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted January 19, 2017 Share #28 Posted January 19, 2017 The M10 has everything I'm looking for in a digital camera. The only reservation I have is with the new sensor, simply because it doesn't have a track record (yet). Throw a 50 mm Summilux on the front, and I think Henri would have been ecstatic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobers Posted January 19, 2017 Share #29 Posted January 19, 2017 Also, out of curiosity, is there an option to switch off long exposure noise reduction? Unfortunately not :-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 19, 2017 Share #30 Posted January 19, 2017 Unfortunately not :-( It will be available in M101 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 19, 2017 Share #31 Posted January 19, 2017 Perhaps I'm getting old - new fangled things like zooms and film cannisters ... what's the world coming to. Becoming older concentrates our life-long experience into the moment, discarding our fruitless, youthful pursuit of the Latest and Greatest. Non-essentials fall away. Life is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted January 19, 2017 Share #32 Posted January 19, 2017 It will be available in M101 You won't need long exposure noise reduction on the M101, ISO will run from 50 to 5,000,000, you'll be able to shoot the Milky Way at 1/2000 at f4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 20, 2017 Share #33 Posted January 20, 2017 Option to shoot uncompressed files. And we should be thankful for that. There won’t be any pointless ‘should I choose compressed or uncompressed’ threads with the M10. There has never been a reason to shoot uncompressed when there was a lossless compression option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 20, 2017 Share #34 Posted January 20, 2017 In the case of Sony, certainly lossless does not equal lossless, no matter the claims. Sony offers lossless compression? That would be news to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2017 Share #35 Posted January 20, 2017 Unclear to me if there is focus peaking. Anybody know? Thank u. Yes when in LV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKW Posted January 20, 2017 Share #36 Posted January 20, 2017 Do you know if there is any trick to fire flash when the hot shoe is occupied? I guess there is no flash socket in the new handgrip? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscheffler Posted January 20, 2017 Share #37 Posted January 20, 2017 I was also unhappy to see the loss of the electronic level feature, which I frequently use with the M240. Over the years I seem to have developed a habit to tilt my shots a couple degrees. While the electronic levels in my Canon cameras have usually been off by a half-degree or so, the one in the M240 seems to be accurate. It would be great to see it reinstated, if indeed the hardware already exists in the M10. IIRC, wasn't it a firmware feature update with the M240? As for 5fps... I welcome it. There are instances where something I was photographing evolved very rapidly (emotional moments at a wedding, for example) and just having a faster fps rate means the camera will be ready for the next frame that much sooner. I welcome the option of deciding for myself if I want to 'machine gun' or selectively release the shutter. The sooner it's ready for me, the better. Here the M240 was a welcome improvement over the frame to frame delay of the M9. Glad to read the M10 seems to take this another step. Charle: (Sony have never offered a lossless option, IIRC. It has always been lossy compressed) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmuussoni Posted January 21, 2017 Share #38 Posted January 21, 2017 I like the M10 and hope to get mine next week. I read the manual and the reviews posted and for the most part I really like what I see. But there are at least four little things I know will drive me nuts with the M10. 1. The on/off switch of the M240 with Single/Continuous mode is great. I use Single shot 99% of the time, but when a scene evolves such that I want to capture three frames per second all it takes is a quick flip to C without my eye leaving the scene. Unfortunately I can't do that anymore with the M10. 2. The M10 apparently offers no aperture data in Exif. I know the M240 guesstimates the f-stop but I can always tell from the value if the shot was at f/1.4 or f/2.8 or f/8, the apertures I use most. With the M10 there’s no clue of the aperture used and that will drive me nuts! Leica, please restore this in the first firmware update. 3. The M240 battery is great. I routinely get 1500 shots* on a single charge and I never have to worry about the battery. If it's charged when I walk out for the day it never runs out and I love that about my M. I suspect that with the smaller battery of the M10 I will now have to worry about carrying a spare (especially if I want to transfer photos over wifi when I sit down for coffee). (*) I rarely use LV, don't have EVF, review is off and I rarely chimp. 4. The level in LV of the M240 is very helpful on the few occasions I use a tripod. Why did Leica remove this? Leveling the M10 is going to be a pain. I know I will love the M10, but I will dearly miss these features that I liked on the M240. I don't think any of them over-complicated the M240. 5. So According to the following page: http://leicarumors.com/2017/01/18/leica-m10-design-process.aspx/ There is not going to be a multi-function handgrip for M10. In other words a huge step back for studio shooting. You can't use strobes and EVF in same time. No sync ports. That is pretty huge minus. So it is possible M-P 240 will remain in production for quite some time for these reasons. Is it a confirmed fact that the horizon level has been taken out? That would be a pity as this is the first M that allows magnified focus check all across the frame which is invaluable for landscape work and the horizon level woks hand-in-hand with that! Also, out of curiosity, is there an option to switch off long exposure noise reduction? It seems Leica hates photographers who do long exposures so only crippled bulb mode is available. No way to turn off long exposure noise reduction. I doubt this will ever be fixed. M 240, SL, Q, S007, M10: all of them share the same "feature". Option to shoot uncompressed files. Please do not say "lossless = lossless", unless you have actually taken the time to test with 100s of files. In the case of Sony, certainly lossless does not equal lossless, no matter the claims. I don't shoot the 240 so I can't compare. I don't think Sony ever claimed of having lossless RAW as option for A7 series. And like Michael said lossless compression is actually good thing. No data loss and smaller file size. In regards to A7 II series Sony listened to customers who were requesting uncompressed RAWs. I wish people would have requested lossless compressed RAWs instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 22, 2017 Share #39 Posted January 22, 2017 In one of the M10 review, the reviewer mentions.. " I wish the ‘A’ setting on the shutter speed dial had a firmer detent." My M240 has a firmer detent for "A" and I can move it to A just by feel. Have they changed that for M10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted January 22, 2017 Share #40 Posted January 22, 2017 I think I would be less resentful of the M10 if it had had a 36mp sensor or something that just frankly blew away the M240. Because then I would have a legit reason to buy one. But as it stands, Leica is doing what car manufacturers do. The first time something comes out, it is as the designer intended. The succeeding model years are just aesthetic tweaks for focus groups, and usually the product is also decontented to keep the price down. So when I take my car in for annual service, I get a loaner (same sale price) with slightly different headlamps, no electrochromic mirrors, no real wood, no nav system, and a 2.0T instead of a 5.0L V8. And that is exactly what happened here. We get a slightly better sensor (as I would expect after 4 years!) and thinner camera but also give up a bunch of stuff that actually made a $7,000 digital camera more cost-justifiable (occasionally shoots video, can show an artificial horizon, amazing battery life, theoretical ability to hook up to SCA flash and EVF at the same time, etc.). As someone who shoots a lot of wide shots, and especially architectural, I am quite irritated by the loss of the all-ways digital horizon. This is nonsensical. When a major raison d'etre for a mirrorless camera is good wideangle lenses, the last thing you want to do is waste pixels and frame area running DxO Viewpoint or the like. With the EVF-2, you could frame horizontally or vertically and get both pitch and roll measurements through the lens. With the new WTF-2, you have to use third-party leveling tools (only 4-way fluid bubble levels these days), basically tying high-precision wideangle use to a tripod and awkward double-accessory shoes. And I can't see what the excuse is. The leveling module is tiny; if you've ever used the now-discontinued Seculine LED Action Level Cross, you know it is neither big nor heavy nor power-hungry. The f/stop approximator, though not accurate, is certainly accurate enough to tell you whether it was you or the lens that missed the focus. I'm glad, though, that we were able to stick to the no-value-add, all-inconvenience model of removable bottom plates a decade into cameras that don't need to accommodate oversized pressure plates. Score one for classic romanticism. Dante Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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