Leica SL terrible low light performance.

[Mute-on]

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Perhaps turning on the AF assist lamp is the answer?

[LD_50]

A zoom is absolutely useful at an event.

 

I don't own the 90-280 (24-90 and M lenses for me) but I absolutely believe the SL (and all CDAF systems) to be inferior to same generation PDAF systems (Nikon D200, D700, D4, D4s in my experience) when it comes to low light shooting and anything requiring tracking or AF on erratic subjects.

 

I have found the SL to be adequate if not frustrating in comparison to my Nikon setup's AF. I use manual override much more often now. It is better with AF than my Sony RX1 by a large margin.

[dancook]

If I'm shooting speeches I don't position myself equidistant to speech giver and 100 guests simultaneously though.

 

And zooming and manual focussing that quickly will take more practice than seems necessary.

 

But if people keep saying I should mf my telephoto zoom.. Then they can't all be wrong. So I will give it a go

[dancook]

I even tried the af assist light, a girl on my table recoiled in horror

[dancook]

I have found the SL to be adequate if not frustrating in comparison to my Nikon setup's AF. I use manual override much more often now. It is better with AF than my Sony RX1 by a large margin.

A stone Haa better focusing ability than an RX1

 

It's why I couldn't keep mine. Even manual focusing was bad.

[steppenw0lf]

I also have modern Canikon cameras. I agree that the AF gives the impression to be fast. But what I like less is that in the OVF I cannot control if it is in focus or not. Usually I find out much later at home at the computer screen. But then it is too late to take another shot.

So with the Canikon I do a lot of additional safety shots - it's no problem, cards are cheap. But it is a lot of (frustrating) repetition. Not very elegant. The SL is closer to the ideal, the control is better.

[steppenw0lf]

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If you turn the lens to mf, then you still have the back button AF (with the joystick). It is not completely off. Simply not coupled with the shutter button anymore. I find this very comfortable.

[earleygallery]

Please read again, slowly, in order.

I made a light hearted suggestion that (for a social dinner, as it appeared at that stage in the thread), I would use an M, not a SL - hence no zoom. Of course for event shooting the zoom is ideal.

This is beginning to sound like the end of the night in a bar, where everyone gets a bit argumentative.

Fair enough but the SL should be able to cope with the situation and subject matter. To suggest the OP was using the wrong camera isn't fair - but I accept that it was meant in jest.

 

It's a problem for Leica though, nice as the SL is.

[dancook]

If you turn the lens to mf, then you still have the back button AF (with the joystick). It is not completely off. Simply not coupled with the shutter button anymore. I find this very comfortable.

That sounds excellent as I like back button af anyway, to be able to override with manual focus without having to switch.. Nice

 

Definitely trying thanks

[EoinC]

I also have modern Canikon cameras. I agree that the AF gives the impression to be fast. But what I like less is that in the OVF I cannot control if it is in focus or not. Usually I find out much later at home at the computer screen. But then it is too late to take another shot.

So with the Canikon I do a lot of additional safety shots - it's no problem, cards are cheap. But it is a lot of (frustrating) repetition. Not very elegant. The SL is closer to the ideal, the control is better.

I use a Canon 1DX generally as a f2.8 300mm combo for shooting elite bike racing at indoor velodromes, which are almost always poorly lit. The PDAF / Cross focusing is extremely fast, particularly when using range-limiting on the lens. CDAF is not very effective in those circumstances.

 

I suspect that the OP's problems are from the SL being at its marginal limits in the conditions he encountered. When it gets that hit and miss, I prefer to manual focus, and sacrifice ISO for greater DOF.

[thighslapper]

hi Dan ...... sorry to hear about your issues ...... but as posted above I think you are at the limits of what is possible with the contrast detection/low light capabilities of the sensor/firmware capabilities of this combo. 

 

.... but ...... I have experimented this morning before dawn and found the AF on the 90-280 better than I expected .......... this is an accurate photo of the actual illumination (24mm)  ...... which is probably darker than most wedding receptions. There are a couple of small spots pointing down onto a workbench behind me.... that's all.

 

At 280mm it was reading 1/40 sec at f4 with 12500iso .... single point AF .....it would lock quickly first time on the books,  hunts a bit on the 'dog cushion' and is hopeless on Sammy the dog in his bed ...... not surprising as he is black and zero contrast. The image (2nd picture) was in focus at 1/40 sec handheld with OIS on (bear in mind this is a screenprint on fabric).

 

Focus on other bits and pieces ranged from instant to hunting for a second or so..... focus was accurate when it did lock on. I'm not sure what your expectations are ...... or comparisons to other systems.... but Leica has never been up with the leaders when it comes to low light performance.  Fairly obviously it is focal length dependent  and the 24-90 is much faster and more accurate. I'd be interested to hear what others think as to whether this performance is up to their expectations though .....

 

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[dkCambridgeshire]

I witnessed a photographer using the SL with 90-280mm recently to document a low light event in a 30ft square crowded room; the combination looked, and was, intimidating to those present - a bit lke using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Horses for courses; there are other usable R and M options - the EVF is plenty good enough for fast and accurate MF - and in a crowded smallish room the 24-90mm would be a better option. I've used MF with the SL in very dark night-time streets when was able to focus quite quickly - the bright EVF is superb.  

 

dunk 

[LD_50]

When I attend events for work the professional photographers typically shoot Nikon or Canon with two cameras, one with a 24-70 type lens and one with a 70-200. I have never considered or heard of anyone being intimidated or even concerned with the photographer or their equipment because they are doing a job. The size of the room or their equipment is irrelevant to the non-photographers.

[Tobers]

Having shot many events with many cameras in low light, there is no substitute for a Canon 1Dx and a 70-200 2.8 L II as a direct comparison to the kit Dan is using in this post (I have not used the Nikon equivalent). The speed of focus acquisition and hold once focused is astonishing. There are some of the top end Canon lenses (24 1.4 or the mk1 70-200 2.8 for example) which are sluggish and inaccurate.

 

Hopefully Leica will be able to improve the low light focus performance of the SL.

[john t]

I am in agreement with Ramarrem,in a situation you were in I would have used manual mode, and you would have had a better success rate. I am wondering whether this was your first attempt at photographing this type of event. in the past before AF you would have to be very experenced to attempt this sort of shot in such varied lighting. the SL in manual mode is fantastic you are able to set all the perameters,and then view the finished picture before you press the shutter 'simple'! I have photographed many weddings (not with the SL) and if the lighting was even the only adjustment you would have to make would be focusing

[Tobers]

What a patronising reply. The OP was simply stating that auto focus on the SL in dim conditions is poor. A camera that cost as much as the SL, that is targeted at the professional market, with a similarly expensive lens, should be able to perform well. A state of the art camera like the SL should not be fooled by very common lighting conditions, and should not need to be put into manual focus mode to combat them.

[Daedalus2000]

During speeches at a wedding I could focus and shoot 3-4 people laughing at a joke, with the d750.

 

I'm concerned with the sl that I won't get one at this rate.

 

Using single point I aimed at eye, nope eye brow nope, hair line nope, try eye again... The single point was still on this same person you see above not even having to fight against the background as it using single point!

 

I think you should try to find vertical lines not horizontal when you autofocus, as I have seen that AF systems seem to prefer that.Try it you have nothing to lose.

[dancook]

I am in agreement with Ramarrem,in a situation you were in I would have used manual mode, and you would have had a better success rate. I am wondering whether this was your first attempt at photographing this type of event. in the past before AF you would have to be very experenced to attempt this sort of shot in such varied lighting. the SL in manual mode is fantastic you are able to set all the perameters,and then view the finished picture before you press the shutter 'simple'! I have photographed many weddings (not with the SL) and if the lighting was even the only adjustment you would have to make would be focusing

I have shot up to about 20 weddings and various events, those in the last year with a nikon D750.

 

I must have lost all my experience when I sold the nikon...

 

The nikon never gave me issue, and I've used it in poorer conditions.

 

Maybe I've just been spoilt!

[Mute-on]

Very interesting thread by way of illustrating the SL's AF limitations. It does seem as though the emphasis is not on AF performance with the SL. For this, perhaps the Nikon/Canon alternatives are more suitable. This is why there is no one do-it-all system. Cost has nothing to do with it. Personal preference and priorities are, as ever, the determining factors.

Having used Canon AF for over 25 years, I am most certainly spoiled by it

 

 

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[LD_50]

I have shot up to about 20 weddings and various events, those in the last year with a nikon D750.

I must have lost all my experience when I sold the nikon...

The nikon never gave me issue, and I've used it in poorer conditions.

Maybe I've just been spoilt!

CDAF systems are not yet up to PDAF standards with AF in many conditions. This is why many mirrorless systems are now incorporating both. I had hoped when it was announced the SL would have on sensor PDAF but knowing it doesn't, I manage expectations in low light and in erratically moving subject or tracking situations.

 

I believe you'll find there are situations where DSLRs are the best tool, hence their continued use in many professional applications.