LocalHero1953 Posted January 3, 2017 Share #801 Posted January 3, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here's hoping that some day an EVF would be as enjoyable to look at as 6x6cm groundglass. In the meantime the M is superb for optical. Is that the 6x6 ground glass screen I used to see on my Rolleiflex, surrounded by a metal box to keep the sun off? I remember using them - until I discovered the rear LCD on my digital camera didn't need shading - and it wasn't back to front. In this particular case, I think I prefer modern technology! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jmahto Posted January 3, 2017 Share #802 Posted January 3, 2017 However, the M is basically a travel and reportage camera. Having an EVF saves the carrying of an SLR/EVIL type supplementary body, which can be essential when travelling light. Exactly this kind of thing can enhance the concept. I would be sorry to see the system pushed into a small nostalgic niche, just as it was moving out of it. By all means make the optical viewfinder superb; it is the main raison d'être. But do not curtail it for the sake of nostalgia. There is always room for "pure" edition for the affectionados. +100 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 3, 2017 Share #803 Posted January 3, 2017 My head hurts following this thread... Even if current M has limitations as RF/OVF, the ability to do LV and use EVF (optionally) allows me to shoot the following picture without buying SL or Sony/Canikon. Take LV away and I am not going to upgrade to future M. This thread needs a picture.... and Happy New Year. (90mm Tele-Elmarit-M (thin) wide open at f/2.8. Composed and focused using LV.) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266426-leica-m-10/?do=findComment&comment=3178217'>More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 3, 2017 Share #804 Posted January 3, 2017 Nice photo, but why is LV required to take it ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 3, 2017 Share #805 Posted January 3, 2017 Nice photo, but why is LV required to take it ?? For any product shots you need camera on a tripod (base ISO, slow shutter speed) and quite low to the ground. This makes using OVF quite painful. You also need careful focusing and checking subject isolation, which necessitates TTL viewing. (Edit: I am not saying that it is not possible with OVF. What I am saying is that LV makes the job so much easier in this case.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 3, 2017 Share #806 Posted January 3, 2017 Yes, using an EVF can change the way you work, but sometimes for the better. An EVF with a movable focus patch and back button AF+MF can remove much more of the camera from the process of taking pictures (and don't we praise the M because it just "gets out of the way"?). It takes guesswork and error out of focusing off-centre subjects, especially with wide-open lenses. With the SL, especially when taking photos of people, I am freed up to interact with them more. It is at least a fact in my case that I get a higher proportion of keepers from the SL than the M (though in some scenarios I am more likely to have the small discreet M with me than the SL). The OVF vs EVF debate is getting as polarised as the film vs digital one, with adherents on each side using their own practice to justify their views about what Leica ought to do. Of course, as one who is delighted with both my M and my SL, I am totally free from such bias That's why we (more precisely, I) need both way of working in the same body/haptics (not everyone, or let us say I, want/s M and SL). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 3, 2017 Share #807 Posted January 3, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's why we (more precisely, I) need both way of working in the same body/haptics (not everyone, or let us say I, want/s M and SL). Precisely what I have been saying... Thank you. Where were you and Tailwagger a day or two ago? I could have done with your brevity! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 3, 2017 Share #808 Posted January 3, 2017 Precisely what I have been saying... Thank you. Where were you and Tailwagger a day or two ago? I could have done with your brevity! Taking year end break from all the madness... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 3, 2017 Share #809 Posted January 3, 2017 Taking year end break from all the madness... Wise... very wise! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 3, 2017 Share #810 Posted January 3, 2017 For any product shots you need camera on a tripod (base ISO, slow shutter speed) and quite low to the ground. This makes using OVF quite painful. You also need careful focusing and checking subject isolation, which necessitates TTL viewing. (Edit: I am not saying that it is not possible with OVF. What I am saying is that LV makes the job so much easier in this case.) Easier with a camera with WiFi and remote control from a smart phone - SL would do nicely, or an M with WiFi ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 3, 2017 Share #811 Posted January 3, 2017 Easier with a camera with WiFi and remote control from a smart phone - SL would do nicely, or an M with WiFi ... Totally agree about "easier". Another feature in future M that I will welcome (but don't consider it deal breaking). However...... I will add that a full fledged remote operation via WiFi is better implemented in a camera that allows lens control from the body. I don't only need to control the shutterspeed but also may want to control the aperture and zoom level (imagine camera outside to shoot birds on a bird feeder). M, by the very nature of it, won't be able to fully utilize the WiFi potential. (edit: typos) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 3, 2017 Share #812 Posted January 3, 2017 Yes, I think that in the long term it certainly could.Translation:"Integrated EVF must be banned from the M system because I feel that it may affect my own use of an indeterminate future model, at an indeterminate time in the future." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 3, 2017 Share #813 Posted January 3, 2017 Precisely what I have been saying... Thank you. Where were you and Tailwagger a day or two ago? I could have done with your brevity! I would have chimed in earlier, but for the lack of a popcorn emoji. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 3, 2017 Share #814 Posted January 3, 2017 Wait until another manufacturer produces as small and light a camera as the Leica M with only an evf and astoundingly good image quality of 30MPixels + due to the integration of optical design with software adjustment. At a substantially lower price than the Leica. Such a camera is probably very possible now. And the M will have to compete against it unfairly because it will be seen as a evf competitor.The Leica M competes as a camera system, not as a focussing and framing component.For me to move away from the M, any competing camera body would also have to offer: - native M lens support (M mount, appropriate sensor micro-lensing) - superb build quality - simple, largely manual feature set and haptics - a commitment to supporting the camera into the indefinite future - (I take the small form factor as a given, as it was part of your scenario) No other manufacturer will tick all of those boxes. Some may tick one. For the last two years the M has already been competing with exactly the camera you describe, and it is doing fine. If a competing body did come out that ticked most or all of those boxes, the best competitive strategy for Leica would not include one that bans an integrated EVF from the M. It would be one that implements it well, without disturbing the M's sophisticated simplicity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted January 3, 2017 Share #815 Posted January 3, 2017 error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 3, 2017 Share #816 Posted January 3, 2017 I would have chimed in earlier, but for the lack of a popcorn emoji. Great! So I had to go through pages of explaining and re-explaining in my usual long winded style, when you could have chimed in at any time with a clear and concise explanation of what I was talking about?! Right... I will remember that when you are trying to explain a simple and entirely open concept to someone and they refuse to understand what you mean, too! In the meantime, I will look for a popcorn emoji... you never know... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 3, 2017 Share #817 Posted January 3, 2017 Right... I will remember that when you are trying to explain a simple and entirely open concept to someone and they refuse to understand what you mean, too! [insert popcorn emoji here] ( ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 3, 2017 Share #818 Posted January 3, 2017 Yea... thats the approach I should take, too. Unfortunately, I always bite... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 3, 2017 Share #819 Posted January 3, 2017 Some of us like special purpose simplicity, even though you can have a versatile, multi-menu system and leave most of it untouched. I use my smartphone like that - just as a phone, and it does fine. That is until my grandkids pick it up and reset everything to what they like, and somehow it never quite gets back to what I like. For 50 years I've used both Leica Ms and SLRs as needed, normally only carrying the one that best suits, and finding the pictures it does best. Having tried autofocus and dSLRs, I just see no need, and go back to what I've always used, as it gets the job done and I'm comfortable with it. But then, I still prefer to drive a '73 VW Beetle around town. It also does all I want. I'm still happy with the M9, used like an M6. I hope the M10 does everything you all want. Then maybe an M-D will show up at a price I care to spend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 3, 2017 Share #820 Posted January 3, 2017 If a person needs EVF, then he does not need a Leica M. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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