jaapv Posted July 14, 2016 Share #41 Posted July 14, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Magenta ain't a color: Those are spectral colours. You may notice I defined it as an extra-spectral colour. If it were not a colour the M in CMYK would be meaningless. You might find this Wikipedia summary helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_color Should you want to read in-depth on imaginary colours and extra-spectral colours, I can advise you to fight your way through Dan Margulis' The Canyon Conundrum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Hi jaapv, Take a look here M (262) colour. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
edwardkaraa Posted July 15, 2016 Share #42 Posted July 15, 2016 I tried looking through my old library with M240 shots, and I cant find any examples where I see IR-issue as clearly as on me example shot in post no.1? Unfortunately I don't have my M240 anymore so I cant do any new comparisons. I too don't have the 240 anymore, but I have noticed the purple blacks many times in the past, and also with the 262, though never as strong as in your example. The 262 seems to have different cover glass coatings than the 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted July 22, 2016 Share #43 Posted July 22, 2016 I don't know what you are talking about «IR» and stuff. The display on the 262 in the the second post and attached here again has a cleary yellow teint, just like mine wich I returned today. In my opinion Leica has a big problem with the white balance of their LCD's in the Type 262. They wanted to replace my unit but the replacement has the same issue as well. Compared to the pictures displayed on a Macbook Pro Retina (Well, I am aware that the display has a much higher resolution and covers a lot more of RGB color), it's a huge difference of temperature. I am wondering how many people do have this issue and don't recognize it. For me it's just not understandable how a 6000 dollar camera can pass a quality control when the whole menu has yellow color. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matlep Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share #44 Posted July 22, 2016 I don't know what you are talking about «IR» and stuff. The display on the 262 in the the second post and attached here again has a cleary yellow teint, just like mine wich I returned today. In my opinion Leica has a big problem with the white balance of their LCD's in the Type 262. They wanted to replace my unit but the replacement has the same issue as well. Compared to the pictures displayed on a Macbook Pro Retina (Well, I am aware that the display has a much higher resolution and covers a lot more of RGB color), it's a huge difference of temperature. I am wondering how many people do have this issue and don't recognize it. For me it's just not understandable how a 6000 dollar camera can pass a quality control when the whole menu has yellow color. Thanks for the reply! My dealer is closed for summer holidays, so I cant discuss the matter with him, but I surely will when he opens again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted July 22, 2016 Share #45 Posted July 22, 2016 All the M262 screens and second generation M240 screens have the yellow tint. It's just the way it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted July 22, 2016 Share #46 Posted July 22, 2016 All the M262 screens and second generation M240 screens have the yellow tint. It's just the way it is. How do you know? Who told you this? If it's true, wich I don't believe, how can people live with it? What is the sense of a display then if it's faulty anyway? There are videos and pictures of the leica m 262 menue in the internet where there is not a yellow tint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted July 22, 2016 Share #47 Posted July 22, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) How do you know? Who told you this? If it's true, wich I don't believe, how can people live with it? What is the sense of a display then if it's faulty anyway? There are videos and pictures of the leica m 262 menue in the internet where there is not a yellow tint. It's just common knowledge on the forum. If you you hang around here often enough you would know it too Anyhow please do let us know if you can get a M262 with a neutral screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 22, 2016 Share #48 Posted July 22, 2016 I don't know about anybody else, but I never consider an LCD to be a perfect reflection of my captured exposure either with respect to color or exposure. The LCD is, at best, a quick way to check sharpness when the image is enlarged to a 1:1 magnification, and reflects general exposure reasonably when paired with histogram and overexposure blinkers. It's also an alternative way to frame when an eye level finder isn't accessible, on cameras equipped with Live View. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted July 22, 2016 Share #49 Posted July 22, 2016 I don't know about anybody else, but I never consider an LCD to be a perfect reflection of my captured exposure either with respect to color or exposure. The LCD is, at best, a quick way to check sharpness when the image is enlarged to a 1:1 magnification, and reflects general exposure reasonably when paired with histogram and overexposure blinkers. It's also an alternative way to frame when an eye level finder isn't accessible, on cameras equipped with Live View. I totally agree with you. I don't use it to get a perfect reflection of my images. What bothers me is the fact that the camera isn't totally inexpensive. I had many different cameras in my way and fighting with correct white balance every day as a professional. It's just confusing if you get a camera with a display that shows people skins like they are bananas. I had screen issues for example with my Sony mobile phone when I got it back from repair. They replaced the screen and the white balance was totally wrong. BUT: There is a very simple function where you can calibrate the display by setting red, blue and green tone. I think this is also a feature in bodies from other camera manufactures. And, the screen of my Q is just perfect, the color is just set right. As well as a three year old M240, the screen represents the colors perfectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 22, 2016 Share #50 Posted July 22, 2016 Personally I find the screen on my first-batch M240 far too cool. However, colour perceptions differ, both between individuals and between cultures. I would venture to say that the colour balance of a camera LCD screen, unless it is hundreds of degrees off, is not even a cosmetic flaw, but largely an irrelevancy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted July 22, 2016 Share #51 Posted July 22, 2016 Personally I find the screen on my first-batch M240 far too cool. However, colour perceptions differ, both between individuals and between cultures. I would venture to say that the colour balance of a camera LCD screen, unless it is hundreds of degrees off, is not even a cosmetic flaw, but largely an irrelevancy. Totally agreed. The first batch was too cool and definitely not neutral. Compared to the images on the monitor screen, that was easy to see. I confess that I like the cool cast more, even though it's incorrect. The warm second generation screen is more correct, but turns the menus dark brown. Anyway I couldn't care less. My screen is almost always turned off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted July 22, 2016 Share #52 Posted July 22, 2016 I don't know in wich cultures you live, but in German part of the world wich I live people define white as white, like paper white, like blank white paper. And so everyone calibrates monitors and printers like that. Let's look at the picture below. On the top, there is the picture like it's being displayed on my computer. Below of it you see a simulation how I saw the picture on the LCD. How can that be right or not bothersome? What if I want to show pictures to someone on my camera display? Everyone would ask if there's something wrong with the white balance, even non-photographers. And if there are so many different cultures and individuals in the world, why don't they implement a function where you can choose the color tone of your display at yourself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted July 22, 2016 Share #53 Posted July 22, 2016 Well, to my non-Aryan eyes, the colors I'm getting from the 262 are just fantastic, better than any camera I have ever used, and that's what matters to me at the end of the day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 22, 2016 Share #54 Posted July 22, 2016 .... What if I want to show pictures to someone on my camera display? .... Perhaps because they think the display of a camera inadequate for the task, anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted July 22, 2016 Share #55 Posted July 22, 2016 May I recommend the M-D 262 as the more suitable option? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 22, 2016 Share #56 Posted July 22, 2016 I don't know in wich cultures you live, but in German part of the world wich I live people define white as white, like paper white, like blank white paper. And so everyone calibrates monitors and printers like that. Let's look at the picture below. On the top, there is the picture like it's being displayed on my computer. Below of it you see a simulation how I saw the picture on the LCD. How can that be right or not bothersome? What if I want to show pictures to someone on my camera display? Everyone would ask if there's something wrong with the white balance, even non-photographers. And if there are so many different cultures and individuals in the world, why don't they implement a function where you can choose the color tone of your display at yourself? o It is culture - you can look at the differences between Fuji, Kodak and Agfa slide film, and see the "colour taste" these films are tweaked for. To be honest, to my eyes the top image is too cool, the bottom one too red/orange As I said, for a camera display it is irrelevant. Showing it to somebody? As if one can judge an image on such a small screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 22, 2016 Share #57 Posted July 22, 2016 My typ 262 is an M-D so no screen at all. My typ 240 is an M-P. Comparing its screen to the SL's, they're both a touch on the cool/blueish side. My Pentax K-01 screen is somewhat warmer, as is my E-1 screen. The E-M1 screen is cool by default but configurable. Does it make any difference to me at all? No. I capture raw files and set the color balance at processing time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted July 22, 2016 Share #58 Posted July 22, 2016 This just feels like a huge misunderstanding. Every photographer has it own style of working. Me myself, if I am engaged far away from any laptop, I like to edit my pictures on the LCD of a camera, just like many other photographers (e.g. Martin Parr) do as well, so I am looking for a more or less reliable and realistic color profile. No clue why you are denying everything and praising Leica's clumsiness. Like I said, issue could be fixed with a simple menue point letting the user be able to configure colours of the LCD at his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted July 23, 2016 Share #59 Posted July 23, 2016 I like to edit my pictures on the LCD of a camera... How do you do that? I suspect the reason the color doesn't bother some is they 1) rarely look at images on the LCD; and 2) never use the LCD to show the image to anyone else. I, for example, have image preview turned off. When I do look at an image I'm actually looking at the histogram. The screen is much too small to tell me anything else. That may be due to my imperfect old eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 23, 2016 Share #60 Posted July 23, 2016 This just feels like a huge misunderstanding. Every photographer has it own style of working. Me myself, if I am engaged far away from any laptop, I like to edit my pictures on the LCD of a camera, just like many other photographers (e.g. Martin Parr) do as well, so I am looking for a more or less reliable and realistic color profile. No clue why you are denying everything and praising Leica's clumsiness. Like I said, issue could be fixed with a simple menue point letting the user be able to configure colours of the LCD at his own. As stated, I'm denying nothing and not praising Leica. My typ 262 has no LCD, the typ 240 and typ 601 produce pretty normal colors on the LCD. That's what I said. The best cameras to edit photos on the LCD are the ones that supply editing tools for that purpose. Far as I'm aware, that would be Olympus and Pentax—both of them allow you to capture raw files and process them into JPEGs after exposure in-camera. Although even there I find it clumsy as all heck. If I'm far away from my laptop and need to process my photos, I transfer them to my iPhone or iPad and process them with that. These mobile devices have FAR more capabilities for editing photographs than any camera does. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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