leepoe Posted June 4, 2016 Share #1 Posted June 4, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am convinced that I will not use the SL for any fast moving social or corporate events. There are just to many gymnastics required to make it work properly. I have been trying to learn the method to use the SL and flash. A member in another post was kind enough and said that Auto produced far better results than TTL. Ok that is correct. I started experimenting with the flash in auto and my results were very good. I soon discovered that having the camera set to A (aperture)) with a strong back lit subject the shutter speed would jump up past 1/250 as the camera was reading the background light. At speeds above 1/250 the flash will not fire. You have to stop and set the camera to manual with the speed lower than 1/250. That's not what you can do when you are working a fast paced event. There's no time for this playing around. I am very disappointed in the SL's performance using flash. It's a great studio camera but I am afraid that's all for me. Hopefully Leica will follow up with a professional flash system and software that can be used for such events. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Hi leepoe, Take a look here SL & Leica & Flash- Very Poor!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
douglas fry Posted June 4, 2016 Share #2 Posted June 4, 2016 Just use the camera in manual with (any) flash. I use a Nikon flash set to manual on my m240 and SL with great results. The light levels at an event rarely change so once the exposure has been ascertained just leave it. Working in manual is much easier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leepoe Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted June 4, 2016 What you say is very true and I understand that. I started out in the old school where there was no auto flash, you mentally calculated the correct f stop and adjusted the camera. I guess I have been spoiled by he Nikon TTL &ITTL flash system and D3 and D4 cameras. Sometimes it hard and takes a while to change the way you are accustom to working. I just don't see any reason why Leica can't vastly improve their flash technology on a camera they want to be a "pro camera'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas fry Posted June 4, 2016 Share #4 Posted June 4, 2016 Yes I know what you mean, I use the same flash on the m240 too, so I don't want to buy another flash, and just use the same process. Setting the correct aperture/shutter combo now takes about 10 seconds and I'm done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 4, 2016 Share #5 Posted June 4, 2016 Sorry Leepoe. I should have mentioned that HSS doesn't work in auto mode. I didn't think that for a corporate event shoot would get above 1/250th. I also shoot only in manual 90% of the time when using flash. Or you could use T mode if you need a dynamic semi-automatic mode in camera and set you shutter speed and let the aperture float. The flash will follow, even in auto mode. I've learned that mirrorless just works differently with flash than a DSLR. I learned the "using auto" trick when I first started shooting mirrorless for paid jobs. That was with an Olympus EM-5 and it was because it was near impossible to get good flash balance with back lit groups in TTL. In mirrorless the Sony's have the most robust TTL system. Nearly exactly the same as shooting with a Nikon or Canon. Leica is more like Olympus in how it works. Fuji, till the XPro2 has been mostly unusable in a dynamic environment. Of course the Olympus flash had a wheel dedicated to FEC so it was dead easy to use (like the SF40 does). The SF58 is up to 11 button presses to use FEC. This is the only reason I'll be getting a SF64. There's another reason for avoiding HSS for what you're doing. Power. In HSS modes you're getting dramatically less power from the flash than if you can stick to 1/250 and below. Even if you do get decent exposures you'll essentially be at full power all the time with the expected hit on battery life and heat issues. HSS can be great but I've not seen a flash powerful enough to make it 100% reliable even when I used Canon. It's a function that I actually avoid using if at all possible. When I shoot an outdoor ceremony or a cocktail reception outdoors we often get very bright contrasty conditions. What I do with mirrorless is set my ISO and shutter speed (usually around ISO 50-100 and 1/200) and then work out my two ambient apertures (front lit and back lit). Then I use "auto" on the flash and just change the aperture depending on which way I'm facing. It'll be something like f4 with the light behind me and f16 shooting into the sun. That usually works out pretty well. I've been doing this since my EM-5 (except for the Sony years) and it's natural and comfortable for me. If you really need to be able to blast away with HSS and 1/8000 I don't think the SL will ever do that because of the way flash works off the sensor. If Leica ever fixes the EVF behaviour so we can see the ambient through the viewfinder when a TTL flash is in the hotshoe then it'll be even easier because you'll be able to see the ambient through the EVF. You can do this now if you double tap the front button in manual mode (on camera) but you need to do it every time which is a PITA. (Actually the Leica M has very good behaviour and settings so hopefully that will flow through to the SL). The last thing is, the SL is a work in progress. We got MAJOR updates in the last firmware (2.0). But there's still lots to fix (auto ISO, EVF behaviour, button dial consistency, etc..) If you have issues make sure you document them and send that information to you local distributer with instructions to forward it to the SL team. I did this with the first lot of flash issues (you should be very glad you didn't try to use flash with fw1.1) and with others doing the same thing we got the flash 80% right so far. It should work out of the gate but this is Leica. Like Fujifilm, they're learning as they go but at least they look like they'll keep updating as time goes on. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugues33 Posted June 5, 2016 Share #6 Posted June 5, 2016 SL &24/90 + SF64 indirect light 1/160 f4 iso 200 @ 90mm mode TTL My grandson 11 days Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261242-sl-leica-flash-very-poor/?do=findComment&comment=3056947'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted June 5, 2016 Share #7 Posted June 5, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) SL &24/90 + SF64 indirect light 1/160 f4 iso 200 @ 90mm mode TTL My grandson 11 days Charles (1 sur 1).jpg Get the pic as they grow fast. Nikon TTL will spoil you rotten. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Andersen Posted June 5, 2016 Share #8 Posted June 5, 2016 I have tested SF 64 flash in HSS mode, and it works ok. Both images are exposed by the light outdoors. 1/500 sec., f:4,5, ISO 400, shutter priority. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261242-sl-leica-flash-very-poor/?do=findComment&comment=3057105'>More sharing options...
Albert Andersen Posted June 5, 2016 Share #9 Posted June 5, 2016 I have tested SF 64 flash in HSS mode, and it works ok. Both images are exposed by the light outdoors. 1/400 sec. f:8, ISO 800, aperture priority. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261242-sl-leica-flash-very-poor/?do=findComment&comment=3057109'>More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted June 6, 2016 Share #10 Posted June 6, 2016 Is it good also to balance nicely backlit portraits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 6, 2016 Share #11 Posted June 6, 2016 Depends. TTL-HSS loses a lot of it's power. For backlit portraits I think it's usually best to keep the shutter speed below 1/250 so you have all the power of the flash available. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotha Posted June 7, 2016 Share #12 Posted June 7, 2016 Be aware that the guide number of the SF 64 is very poor: 24 @ ISO 100, 35mm while Nikons SB 800, 900, 910 and 5000 is 35! GN 64 is @ 200mm only! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 8, 2016 Share #13 Posted June 8, 2016 Be aware that the guide number of the SF 64 is very poor: 24 @ ISO 100, 35mm while Nikons SB 800, 900, 910 and 5000 is 35! GN 64 is @ 200mm only! Where do you get those numbers from? The manual says 36 @ ISO 100 and 35mm (and 30 @ 24mm) Your figure 64 for f=200 is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski542002 Posted June 11, 2016 Share #14 Posted June 11, 2016 Hello: I shoot with Canon & the Canon-native TTL flash. Also shot with my M240 using a fully manual LumoPro flash; $160 and completely reliable. http://mpex.com/lumopro-lp180-quad-sync-manual-flash.html Sold my M and now shooting with the SL (using M-lenses) and the same LumoPro flash. Camera is on full manual. I actually now have 5 LumoPro flash units and can light any situation with this combo. Never fails and with a bit of training, consistently more accurate than any TTL flash. If you can get over the initial short-term frustration of inaccurate flash exposures, you'll find a fully manual flash to be more than up to the task, even in fast-moving environments. Decades ago, I shot transparency film, 35mm & 2-1/4 using a fully manual Lumedyne 200ws flash unit and was able to accurately set the flash to be used as fill, outside in full sunlight, or inside as the main light. Over time, you get the hang of it and can judge distance and settings without having to look at the scales on the lens. It seems kind of counter-intuitive to use a $7000+ fully automated camera with a manual flash, but it works without fail. I have an SF-58 purchased 3 years ago, and found it to be very difficult to get accurate flash exposures with the M. Might begin to experiment with it and the SL, but the manual flash works so well, I'm really in no rush to attempt it right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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