ECohen Posted June 8, 2016 Share #41 Posted June 8, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) "My point is, if you had actually read my post, is that the cost of the tools and dies used plus the development costs of firmware software etc have already been amortized due to development of the M 60 and therefore the price of the MD should be lower." There are members here with far more experience and history with Leica than I...and yes this statement make sense. .......but I dont think thats how Leica prices its offerings? To a certain extent I don't think they care what it costs them. It's more about what will we pay to have this unique offering? As far as price who is Leica competing with ? To me they are competing with only themselves.....to convince us we need/want this. I've been watching this go round and round.......Does anyone really know how Luxury good are priced? I dont .....I just love photography So can anyone make an educated guess how the pricing meeting at Leica went? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Hi ECohen, Take a look here The M-D would be an absolute triumph if it didn't cost so much.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Nick Bedford Posted June 8, 2016 Share #42 Posted June 8, 2016 I guess that's also the sad part. No one else that I know of even makes a digital (true) rangefinder like the M. The M used to have competition with film cameras, but ain't nothing like it in the digital realm. The X100 and XPro cameras aren't actually rangefinders, and don't have the same construction and feel of a digital M, and by all I know, no digital cameras have an ISO button instead of a screen. But if we want to complain about prices, I would advise us all (even myself) to realise how much we spent on our existing Ms! They're a luxury good in my opinion, and I'm ecstatic to have been able to afford even one of them. "My point is, if you had actually read my post, is that the cost of the tools and dies used plus the development costs of firmware software etc have already been amortized due to development of the M 60 and therefore the price of the MD should be lower." There are members here with far more experience and history with Leica than I...and yes this statement make sense. .......but I dont think thats how Leica prices its offerings? To a certain extent I don't think they care what it costs them. It's more about what will we pay to have this unique offering? As far as price who is Leica competing with ? To me they are competing with only themselves.....to convince us we need/want this. I've been watching this go round and round.......Does anyone really know how Luxury good are priced? I dont .....I just love photography So can anyone make an educated guess how the pricing meeting at Leica went? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted June 8, 2016 Share #43 Posted June 8, 2016 I didn't say it was. The M60 was. We all Know the M-D is black. My point is, if you had actually read my post, is that the cost of the tools and dies used plus the development costs of firmware software etc have already been amortized due to development of the M 60 and therefore the price of the MD should be lower. My point was, if you had actually read my mind, that different materials require different manufacturing processes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 8, 2016 Share #44 Posted June 8, 2016 Anyone want to design a "nice looking" M 240 LCD blackout cover that has a little square cut out for the ISO setting?? (but seriously, I'm considering covering up my LCD) Nick why not simply set once the menu options that you want and simply select Auto Review OFF. Then if for whatever reasons you wish to not see the image previews or histogram or anything else you get exactly the same experience. Nothing displayed when you make an exposure. Of course you retain the option of viewing the information by pressing PLAY. Seems kind of macho to never want to see and interpret the available information but hey go get your HCB on if you want Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morry Posted June 8, 2016 Share #45 Posted June 8, 2016 This is practically a limited run model for a limited number of people with niche preference, so that is quite understandable that from marketing point of view, they want to price it a little higher than normal M262 in order to maintain balance. Would they sell more MD by lowering the price to make more profit ? I am doubtful because no matter how cheap that would be, ordinary people will not buy something without LCD anyway. Now for the ones who love this concept, I suggest not to hesitate and get one, because presumably there will not be something like this in coming years even from Leica themselves. This is not something we shall replace every three years, so the fact also makes it "less expensive" than as it sounds I think. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted June 8, 2016 Share #46 Posted June 8, 2016 nickjbedford, on 07 Jun 2016 - 20:05, said: Anyone want to design a "nice looking" M 240 LCD blackout cover that has a little square cut out for the ISO setting?? My friends 8 year old plays with colored duct tape...I think she has a roll with flowers on it ? I'm sure she could whip you up something? The introduction on this camera and this forum has altered how I shoot as well ....only DNG and I rarely look at the LCD. I dont think no LCD makes me a better photographer....just better in post.....but that me. I do see and respect that its an interesting choice of minimalism.....And minimalism is one of the reasons we all choose the Leica M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orni100 Posted June 8, 2016 Share #47 Posted June 8, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) .... I understand that the quality of any Leica is going to merit a hefty price tag. What I don't understand is how they aren't able to manufacture the M-D at a lower profit margin when its the exact same camera as the 262 minus the LCD screen. In all seriousness, is there something that I'm missing? the answer is pretty easy - the pricing Leica does is the so called value-pricing. You dont calculate production-costs plus R&D plus Overheads. Leica knows their customers very well and they just try to guess, what the ceiling-price might be, we are prepared to pay. That is the only calculation they do... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted June 8, 2016 Share #48 Posted June 8, 2016 the answer is pretty easy - the pricing Leica does is the so called value-pricing. You dont calculate production-costs plus R&D plus Overheads. Leica knows their customers very well and they just try to guess, what the ceiling-price might be, we are prepared to pay. That is the only calculation they do... I have no idea about the business/pricing end of Leica..... and I completely agree with the above statement I'm very careful how I spend money....I'm not cheap but careful. I find it amusing that Leica has me exactly pegged ........and I dont care Not all their offering fits my wants....but when one does,they have hit my ouch factor on the mark. So on the mark that I never have buyers remorse....its worth it.....to me Once the money part is over, all I think about ...is WOW this is a great product. These are some smart business folks. I know they read this forum.....Hey Leica guys How about a nice 30% off sale....? 12% was just a tease....but it worked. Or buy one lens and get a second at 1/2 off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tthorne Posted June 8, 2016 Share #49 Posted June 8, 2016 I'm biased. I have had my M-D since the day it became available and I have been enjoying the hell out of it. If Leica would make me a monochrom version as well I would be absolutely in digital heaven. Shooting film on my MPs with the M-D as my digital makes everything so seamless. Big thumbs up and many thanks to my friends at Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted June 8, 2016 Share #50 Posted June 8, 2016 and by all I know, no digital cameras have an ISO button instead of a screen. Agree with the rest of your comment, but it should be pointed out that the Nikon dF, X-T1 and XPro2 all have dedicated ISO dials. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morry Posted June 8, 2016 Share #51 Posted June 8, 2016 I'm biased. I have had my M-D since the day it became available and I have been enjoying the hell out of it. If Leica would make me a monochrom version as well I would be absolutely in digital heaven. Shooting film on my MPs with the M-D as my digital makes everything so seamless. Big thumbs up and many thanks to my friends at Leica. +1 It seems that quite often the ones who love M-D wish for Monochrom version. May be that is why people call us "purists" haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bedford Posted June 9, 2016 Share #52 Posted June 9, 2016 Well, last night I decided to completely black out my M 240, red dot, "M" and all, and leave a gap to see ISO setting. Should be an interesting experiment. Still hard not to go for that Play button after shooting though. Bad Nick, bad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 9, 2016 Share #53 Posted June 9, 2016 Why should anyone resist the impulse to look at their photos if they feel it? What a weird bunch photographers can be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morry Posted June 9, 2016 Share #54 Posted June 9, 2016 Cameras are trying to conquer our heart and soul by providing floods of information those are theoretically correct. Hence not relying on screen is a small rage against the machine to preserve human's pride Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 9, 2016 Share #55 Posted June 9, 2016 Cameras are trying to conquer our heart and soul by providing floods of information those are theoretically correct. Hence not relying on screen is a small rage against the machine to preserve human's pride Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Only if you want to rage against the camera. I like my camera because it helps me make photographs. I rage against people, not machines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted June 9, 2016 Share #56 Posted June 9, 2016 Here we go again Look if it makes you happy don't look if it doesn't As for me I'm a looker....that doesn't make you wrong....or me right I do think if your going to cover up you screen...commit Set the ISO only once in 36 exposures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bedford Posted June 9, 2016 Share #57 Posted June 9, 2016 I'm not doing it for some sense of rebelliousness or anything. I shot with a film MP and loved the experience of just moving on with no option to review. It felt far more meditative and freeing without that nagging desire in the back of your mind to check your exposures. Why should anyone resist the impulse to look at their photos if they feel it? What a weird bunch photographers can be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2016 Share #58 Posted June 9, 2016 Agree with the rest of your comment, but it should be pointed out that the Nikon dF, X-T1 and XPro2 all have dedicated ISO dials.Why? Because it is nostalgic and a digital camera at the same time. Would you like a Tesla with a big loudspeaker under the hood, so it roars? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2016 Share #59 Posted June 9, 2016 I'd rather have the best of both worlds (not a digital camera with no control). I would prefer a film body with instant image control. It doesn't have to be that complicated: Photomics (exchangeable view-finders for Nikon F to F5) with a built-in video camera and Bluetooth / Wifi connection to the screen of a computer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted June 9, 2016 Share #60 Posted June 9, 2016 I'd rather have the best of both worlds (not a digital camera with no control). I would prefer a film body with instant image control. It doesn't have to be that complicated: Photomics (exchangeable view-finders for Nikon F to F5) with a built-in video camera and Bluetooth / Wifi connection to the screen of a computer. " built-in video camera and Bluetooth / Wifi connection to the screen of a computer." If you haven't seen this by now I dont think Nikon is putting tech into there film cameras.....they are having enough trouble keeping the DSLR alive I'm not actually sure I understand it your F5 is Wifi to your computer...aren't you shooting digital? I thought the point of film was for the qualities of film? Sometimes I'm slow with irony ....your kidding right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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