IkarusJohn Posted July 18, 2016 Share #261 Posted July 18, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh, no you don't get away with that. Here's your earlier post. ... I can understand why you might think 24MP is plenty if you are mostly uploading pictures to the internet, but you may well be surprised at how many are using the M system in this professional context, despite low representation on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here How many megapixels in the next M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 18, 2016 Share #262 Posted July 18, 2016 Being professional in a discipline doesn't exclude using any tool, if one thinks it fits the purpose and gets the job done. Isn't that exactly what I am saying, including the implication that using a tool that won't do the job is not professional? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 18, 2016 Share #263 Posted July 18, 2016 Sorry Paul J but M cameras have never been made for billboard photography. I don't mind if Leica makes a special model for that but i would be worried if they come to forget the core of M cameras i.e. IQ, portability and versatility. It's not like I shoot the camera with the intention of making 8m prints - I thought I had made that clear several times. I'm not even just talking about billboards. This is what a professional goes through - Leica markets and sells to this market that I am a part of and choose to use this system for it's form, it's lenses, it's rangefinder. Even still, to suggest that a camera is not suited for any size output is a mystery to me. Pardon my Australian colloquialism, but why the bloody hell not? M cameras were never made with the intention of "billboard photography" but there is absolutely no reason why it can't, and photography, and the way it is being used, has dramatically changed since the inception of the M camera. Portability and versatility are some of the very reasons why I choose to use it. Lets have this conversation in however many years time when we have a 72MP M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 18, 2016 Share #264 Posted July 18, 2016 Ain't gonna happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreasAM Posted July 18, 2016 Share #265 Posted July 18, 2016 Isn't that exactly what I am saying, including the implication that using a tool that won't do the job is not professional?No, you are implying that using a M, with 24 Mp for a 8 meter print or using a dentist's drill for sculpture can't be professional.This is all to be decided by the "professional", if it fits his or her purpose and can get the job done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 18, 2016 Share #266 Posted July 18, 2016 Two points seem to have been forgotten. Paul implied that his client decides to print large after the shoot; too late to change the camera. The effects of motion blur on increased pixel counts are being debated in another tread; that discussion is nowhere as clear cut as is presented in this tread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 18, 2016 Share #267 Posted July 18, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh, no you don't get away with that. Here's your earlier post. That was not directed at you personally. But while we're at it, how often do you print over 1m? Do you do it in a highly competitive market and does your business and livelihood rely on it? Mine does, and yet I'm being told that I am wrong, on the contrary it's quite naive to suggest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 18, 2016 Share #268 Posted July 18, 2016 No, that's also a misrepresentation. You've been saying for years the M camera must have increased MP - I disagree. You keep holding out your professionalism as a badge of honour, and belittling people who disagree with you (intentionally or not). We're discussing a tool - as a tool I disagree that this camera needs a big MP sensor - it's an anathema. Now, there are plenty who share my experience of getting pretty ordinary results with high MP cameras with careless technique (Ming Thein & Tim Ashley to name just two, for what it's worth, though I tend to rely on my own experience). More reassuringly, where Leica could have added a high MP to the M camera (Sony was selling them to Nikon), they didn't - thankfully. If they make a camera with more than 24MP in the future, will I buy it? If I need a new camera at that time, possibly, but it isn't a driver for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 18, 2016 Share #269 Posted July 18, 2016 Well you can interpret what you like but my intention has never been to belittle - the general reception I get is hostile whenever I suggest the notion of extra megapixels - like I'm some sort of pixel peeping ignorant dilettante who doesn't understand what real photography is and takes horrendously boring photos by default. I only bring notice to my "professionalism" if I'm challenged and when it is relevant to the conversation. I post with a psuedonym, I don't care what you think of my professionalism - I don't think anyone cares for it. I come here to add to discussion, create discussion from a different point of view that doesn't happen to be widely represented on this forum, and that is a conversation that Leica themselves listen into. You can take it or leave it, it makes no difference to me. I get it, you have your uses and needs, as do I. So Leica need to rise to the challenge and create a system where everyone benefits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2016 Share #270 Posted July 18, 2016 Two points seem to have been forgotten. Paul implied that his client decides to print large after the shoot; too late to change the camera. The effects of motion blur on increased pixel counts are being debated in another tread; that discussion is nowhere as clear cut as is presented in this tread. But there were real complaints by customers at Nikon, an the general advice is to shoot at higher shutter speeds than usual for high-ISO cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2016 Share #271 Posted July 18, 2016 Well you can interpret what you like but my intention has never been to belittle - the general reception I get is hostile whenever I suggest the notion of extra megapixels - like I'm some sort of pixel peeping ignorant dilettante who doesn't understand what real photography is and takes horrendously boring photos by default. I only bring notice to my "professionalism" if I'm challenged and when it is relevant to the conversation. I post with a psuedonym, I don't care what you think of my professionalism - I don't think anyone cares for it. I come here to add to discussion, create discussion from a different point of view that doesn't happen to be widely represented on this forum, and that is a conversation that Leica themselves listen into. You can take it or leave it, it makes no difference to me. I get it, you have your uses and needs, as do I. So Leica need to rise to the challenge and create a system where everyone benefits. But, with the new Hasselblad out, which will be quite usable as a general camera, offering 50 MP on a large sensor (which, whatever way one argues it, will be more suitable for high-quality-high-MP photography), the potential market for a high-MP M will have shrunk even more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 18, 2016 Share #272 Posted July 18, 2016 Isn't that exactly what I am saying, including the implication that using a tool that won't do the job is not professional? It's just a camera Jaap and the individual can decide to use it in what ever way they find works. Your perception of their professionalism, sorry to be frank, is irrelevant. There are a whole lot of people using the M. There are still people using the Contax G2, yes, for billboard too, on the biggest jobs in the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted July 18, 2016 Share #273 Posted July 18, 2016 Paul J is correct. At the time of capture there is often no way of predicting how your work will be used. I've licensed images ranging from thumbnails to huge prints and apart from working with camera manufacturers have never been asked what camera I used for a particular capture prior to licensing. I've also never had any subsequent query regarding image quality. What am I to do in order to be professional? Should I shoot large format film or multi-shot medium format digital on all occasions on the off chance that the shot will be used on a gargantuan scale. Many billboard and point of sale uses are shot on 16 to 24MP cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 18, 2016 Share #274 Posted July 18, 2016 But, with the new Hasselblad out, which will be quite usable as a general camera, offering 50 MP on a large sensor (which, whatever way one argues it, will be more suitable for high-quality-high-MP photography), the potential market for a high-MP M will have shrunk even more I have more troubles with my Hasselblads at low speeds than when I have used the Canon 5DS R (on and off for 6 months). But sure, the Hasselblad is going to take a lot of attention away from Leica, but for those who want *M Lenses* with a decent pixel count are going to have to wait until Leica gets with the program, or make do with adapting the lenses to other cameras which rumours suggest are going to make it to 72MP soon. God only knows what these companies are thinking to create a camera that is so unusable that the world has no use for... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 18, 2016 Share #275 Posted July 18, 2016 ... God only knows what these companies are thinking to create a camera that is so unusable that the world has no use for... or jeans with holes or shirts with advertising ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 18, 2016 Share #276 Posted July 18, 2016 or jeans with holes or shirts with advertising ... The fact you relate jeans with holes to a functional and required professional tool that they earn a living from is the reason I should stop posting in these silly threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 18, 2016 Share #277 Posted July 18, 2016 The fact you relate jeans with holes to a functional and required professional tool that they earn a living from is the reason I should stop posting in these silly threads. The manufacturers and sellers of jeans (with and without holes) earn a quite comfortable living, to say the least. Margins in the textile branch are at a level which the makers of photographic gear can but dream of. You questioned the sense of selling hamstrung goods. I mentioned some of those goods. Keep your shirt on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 18, 2016 Share #278 Posted July 18, 2016 Whatever, whenever - Leica needs to sell new products - irrespectivly how excellent the M240 system is. Its hard to foresee the next incarnation without increased MP, better dynamic range, improved low-light properties or lowered base-ISO (combined with higher shutter speed for day-shooting with Noct and Lux-es) or a combination thereof. Plus, plus. Plus a greatly improved (external) EVF. Many options; one question is whether we will see an incremental or a substantial update. I am particularly interested to learn how the M- and SL-systems evolve side by side; with M being rooted in tradition (low weight, smallish size, unique optics, easy usage) and the SL closer to the technical front. Interesting times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2016 Share #279 Posted July 18, 2016 It's just a camera Jaap and the individual can decide to use it in what ever way they find works. Your perception of their professionalism, sorry to be frank, is irrelevant. There are a whole lot of people using the M. There are still people using the Contax G2, yes, for billboard too, on the biggest jobs in the business. Of course he can, but personally - in my profession I do look for the most suitable tool and discard those that are unsuited. For my hobby? It is different, as I can do things for fun without being under pressure to deliver the best result I can. Which includes things like using 400 mm lenses on the M8 and M9 and doing macro with any M camera. If I were professional I would not dream of doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted July 18, 2016 Share #280 Posted July 18, 2016 It's just a camera Jaap and the individual can decide to use it in what ever way they find works. Your perception of their professionalism, sorry to be frank, is irrelevant. There are a whole lot of people using the M. There are still people using the Contax G2, yes, for billboard too, on the biggest jobs in the business. I'm with Paul There are lots of people using different cameras to make money. Leica M is only one. It's a nice camera to use. I would prefer 100mp as well, given same or better noise performance, DR and colour depth. Don't like it ? Suffer from camera shake ? Use a lower resolution or scale down. More choices the better .... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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