Nobody talks about super-Angulon 21mm f4, why ?

[the warrior]

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I have a 21mm ASPH elmarit, I'm happy with, but I'm tempted to look retro, I like the retro look of old lenses ASPH seems very hard and lacking the Leica 3D.

My cameras with the M3, the MP and MMonochrom.

I do not mind the lack of measurement ttl, I use the M3 and I have no problems with light.
Vignetting in the corners say it's a problem, I do not think it's very serious.

But I would like to hear from you who own this lens for street photography.

 

I had read some reviews of this lens over the network, but seek opinions of people who use it on the street.

I do not care compared to other lenses of any kind, only interests me opinióin this goal if possible.

How many of you use it every day ?.

I've seen photographs of great quality and use all your life or much and I have seen your photos, this 21mm lens generally must know him well, but offers very interesting things.

I'm thinking of changing my 21mm Elmarit ASPH ASPH by the Super-anbgulon, I'm crazy or not ?.

I use a UV filter always scratched to lower contrast and sharpness in the film and the MMonochrom, I like much more so, I wonder if this is going to get the Super-Angulon 21mm f4 .......

Greetings.

 

21mm Elmarit ASPH - MMonochrom CCD - Screatched UV Filter - f4

 

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[gbealnz]

I'd love one, but the price they command puts it in the too hard basket.

Gary

[adan]

The 21mm f/4 Super-Angulon was adequate, but quickly replaced (in Leica years ) by the f/3.4, which is noticeably crisper. But if you scratch your filters anyway - it'll be more than fine.

 

It is virtually unusable (as is the 3.4) on color full-frame digital Ms, due to the short back-focus (rear element nearly touching the shutter), which creates a nasty purple/red stain around the edges of the picture ("italian flag syndrome"). Except for B&W conversions. On the cameras you list (film and the Monochrom), it will work as well as it ever did. Also may work on the M8 (which crops off the area where the stain occurs).

 

Leica also warns about using the SA lenses on digital, due to the narrow clearance between the lens and shutter (digital M shutters are "fatter" than the cloth film shutters). - so try with care on the Monochrom, just to be safe.

 

Both the Super-Angulons will block the metering on an MP or Monochrom - you'll need to use a hand meter, or guess the exposures.

 

One plus - they focus (by scale, not by using the rangefinder) down to 40 cm or so. Quite a bit tighter than the Elmarits. See attached image.

 

Be aware there is a "21mm f/4 Super-Angulon" built for the Leica SLRs - totally different lens, needs adapter for M use, no RF focusing, BIG! Don't confuse them!

 

21 f/4 for M - http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/Leica_RF/leica_sm_21_1646612_1.jpg

 

21 f/4 for Leicaflex/Leica R: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/images/thumb/6/64/R-21f4.jpg/250px-R-21f4.jpg

 

21 f/3.4 for M (also retro-looking) - https://p2.liveauctioneers.com/364/60019/29643695_1_l.jpg

 

In my film days, I used the 21 f/3.4 SA for a while - ultimately just too slow an aperture for me.

 

21mm f/3.4 @ 0.4m, Leica M4-2, Velvia 50.

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[TheGodParticle/Hari]

For the corner color shift on digital Leicas as mentioned above already

 

On the Monochrom (Henri and Elliott), I absolutely love the SA21/3.4. It's my go to lens for b&w.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Exodies]

What a lovely cafe (or two?) Where is it?

Pity you lost the colours

[michaelwj]

I use the 3.4 SA all the time. It's my second favourite lens, behind my 35 lux pre asph (but I only just got the 35, so it is still in its honeymoon period). Never used digital so can't comment.

If you haven't already, check out the very long thread on RFF, and a somewhat shorter thread in the historia section here. Loads of examples.

But it is not an unsharp lens, the centre is very sharp and the corners very dark. It also has no distortion at all, and can be successfully used for portraits- see Jeanloup Sieff, he used the lens very well.

It is defiantly a love or hate lens though. I love it.

 

M

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

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What a lovely cafe (or two?) Where is it?

Pity you lost the colours

First two are taken at the "Caru cu Bere" in Bucharest, Romania

 

Last one at the "New York Cafe" in Budapest, Hungary

 

I can highly recommend both places if you happen to have these cities on your travel plan

 

These were taken during a road trip across Berlin->Vienna->Bucharest->Budapest->Paris

 

Yes. I know. Don't ask. It was what it was [emoji847]

 

The m240/Q helped with the color captures during the trip, the Q proved to be extremely versatile and helped in capturing many scenes discreetly.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

I use the 3.4 SA all the time. It's my second favourite lens, behind my 35 lux pre asph (but I only just got the 35, so it is still in its honeymoon period). Never used digital so can't comment.

If you haven't already, check out the very long thread on RFF, and a somewhat shorter thread in the historia section here. Loads of examples.

But it is not an unsharp lens, the centre is very sharp and the corners very dark. It also has no distortion at all, and can be successfully used for portraits- see Jeanloup Sieff, he used the lens very well.

It is defiantly a love or hate lens though. I love it.

 

M

Sieff was an inspiration for my interest in trying the SA21/3.4 out

 

I absolutely loved his work with this lens

 

Some of the forum members here have also taken fantastic images with the lens which motivated me further to try the lens

[the warrior]

Sieff uses f3,4 or f4 ??, I find this literature, but certainly is a master in the use of 21mm.

The 21mm millimeters need intense specialization, it is not easy to look for.

Another thing that catches my attention is that f4 can approximate 40cm, should be interesting one algular end to 40cm, I have no problem to put the camera at that distance from the face of the people.

I'm very clumsy, I tried to find literature in the forum on this objective and do not find much, surely there is a long thread of it but not see it.

I think the character is in the old objectives, ASPH modern digital sensors are designed for and not for the film, I like the film.

Adan friend, I have read carefully while your thread and share your impressions with Leica-Mandler, P. Karbe now the designer is in a different line, for my only maintains the quality of construction.

Only one design that I've had for a year and I love about Peter Karbe the Noctilux f0,95, I have made great photographs with.

Now not interested in anything salvola clarity, sharpness Cron ASPH APO hurt in my eyes, is nothing natural.

I always look at pictures like this, I do not remember the author.

 

Wher is here the sharpness??

 

Many thanks friends.

 

[Leicaiste]

It is out of topic but maybe good to know, neither of the Super-Angulon (F4 or F3,4) will mechanically fit on the SL.

[james.liam]

That is quite a powerful and wondrous image. Thank you for sharing.

 

In fairness to Karbe, he doesn't "see" as Mandler did; I remember in one interview that his (Karbe) least favorite lens was the 75 Summilux, Mandler's very favorite after a long career of engineering many others.

 

The Monochroms, more than any digital camera preserve the 'feel' of film. These older lenses have not gone away and kept in spec, will continue to produce images for decades to come in the fashion they were intended by their designers.

[adan]

Image is by W. Eugene Smith - taken on the New York docks, as people waited for survivors of the sinking of the Andrea Doria in 1956.

 

Probably with a Canon Serenar and Canon RF camera - if it matters.

 

BTW, as the name reveals, the Super-Angulon lenses were designed by Schneider-Kreuznach, based on their large-format wideangle designs.

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/SuperAngulon.png/250px-SuperAngulon.png

 

E. Leitz/Leica just licenced (bought) the design from them. If you want a Mandler-designed 21, you need the original non-ASPH Elmarit.

 

But from the point of view of "look," not that big a deal. They are different from each other, but also quite different from Karbe's ASPHs.

[the warrior]

Karbe said once the 75 lux Mandler was not like, I've read on this forum somewhere.

 

Thanks Adam, what I want is an ultra wide-angle lens that has a retro look, but I see it's going to be a problem because to be honest today there is no longer the film was manufactured to 40 years, the TriX is no longer the same people 50 years and 50 years situations will not return, photography today is just today.

But I have one thing clear, I do not like that aspect of the photographs of the ASPH lenses, except f0,95.

The results of placing on the target slightly scratched introduce other UV filter effects shots that are not exactly what I want but I think creative and different.

The 21mm f4 I like it because it is also small, it is solid brass, because it can take pictures to 40 cm although I have to calculate the distance to the eye, it's different.

I think the tendency to do everything today so that people do not have to think is an error, the digital world is making people leave drag the "dark side" and lack of sensitivity, look, understanding, originality, training, I'm another one of those people who resists it.

Today only understand all manufacturers to do very sharpness objectives and contrasted to feed the growing sensors, thereby perdiendopor go the way mimportantes other things.

 

Once she told me a great photographer that the sharpness is just one more parameter within a photograph and that is never the most important.

 

Today, MMonochrom y el 21mm ASPH.

 

 

 

 

[adan]

Hee-Hee! Attached made with Zeiss Biogon 38mm on 6x6 (21mm equivalent). I DO like Superwide lenses!

 

 

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[gvaliquette]

Just out of curiosity, which frame lines do the Super-Angulon-M 21mm f4.0 and f3.4 bring out?

 

Thanks,

 

Guy

[Ernstk]

Hee-Hee! Attached made with Zeiss Biogon 38mm on 6x6 (21mm equivalent). I DO like Superwide lenses!

SWC?

[the warrior]

I found this old post of theGodparticle

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/226557-super-angulon-21f4-vs-super-angulon-21f34/

 

Definitely almost nobody seems to want this lens, I'm gonna try one of them and give my opinion, and photographs.

I like challenges.

Once I was told that I would not enjoy the Noctilux and buy two, the E60 f1 and F0,95, are two of the lenses with the ones I've never fun.

I understand that the f4 Super-Angulon has a lot of character, cartoons and there is no possibility of ttl measurement, the latter do not care because I have no trouble guessing light and cartoons are what I see as an excessive problem.

I hope to see if a friend of the forum has pictures of fim with f4 and put here for us .....

[the warrior]

This is the way I do photography with 21mm

I like shooting nearby.

But I try to do street photography, scenes of everyday life.

 

MMonochrom and the ASPH 21mm, with UV Scratched filter

 

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[michaelwj]

Just out of curiosity, why are you not considering the 3.4, or are you? They are similar lenses but with different handling characteristics.

M

[Ernstk]

I'm using 21mm more and more for street photography. It changes the way that you have to work, requiring you to be much closer and more engaged.

 

This was taken yesterday in Oxford. M-P CV 21/4

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