wattsy Posted January 15, 2017 Share #341 Posted January 15, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) As I said, I stand corrected about Hassy H (see edited post). Other than that, again you said: "With no film back to use S lenses, it becomes a far less desirable system than a modular one." I said: "pretty much no other DMF camera you can buy new today supports film backs as well, Phase and Hassy stopped doing that a few generations ago". True fact: pretty much no DMF camera you can buy new today support film backs. Only Hassy does. A Pentax film body is not a DMF camera you can buy new today. Old Phase/Mamiya bodies are not DMF bodies you can buy new today. So, I am sorry but what I said is exactly true. Best, Vieri You are being pedantic. Paul is referring to systems and he is right that the S system is pretty much the only MF one without a film body or film back option. That said, some of the S lenses probably rely on some fairly wild in-camera digital corrections so they might not be that great on film. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Hi wattsy, Take a look here State of S. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted January 15, 2017 Share #342 Posted January 15, 2017 You are being pedantic. Paul is referring to systems and he is right that the S system is pretty much the only MF one without a film body or film back option. That said, some of the S lenses probably rely on some fairly wild in-camera digital corrections so they might not be that great on film. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I will try my 70mm on my M6 when I get home.......pictures to follow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan.y Posted January 15, 2017 Share #343 Posted January 15, 2017 I read in Vieri's review that the super elmar S 24mm relies on in camera corrections, but which other S lenses do? But I don't believe Ive observed this in the 30, 35, 45, 70, 100, or 180. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 15, 2017 Share #344 Posted January 15, 2017 Whats the discussion exactly about? The S doesnt shoot film, everybody knows. People who want to shoot film should not buy the Leica S. The speculation how much those lenses rely on software correction doesnt change anything about the fact that The S doesnt shoot film. Even though I dont really believe that the S lenses would be so misarable without software correction (if there is any). By the way I wouldnt mind if there was a film option for the S, but then if we want to shoot film one get a lot of film MF equipment used for very low prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share #345 Posted January 17, 2017 The discussion about film is very relevant. There is a big movement going back to film in my part of the industry. Many of my colleagues already have, and some are in the process of going back. Why would you shoot film when you have a $10K sensor? There are lots of reasons. Because of the way it looks, something digital can mimic but not match, It's more natural and organic looking and doesn't need the work that digital does to do so. Because photographers are claiming back their art and process. Having a modular system that allows you to shoot film and digital is very important from a workflow perspective during a shoot, again for many reasons, and at this point buying into a system that does not shoot film is certainly a consideration for some, especially when there are very good systems that offer both. I add Mamiya RZ to the list because it is currently a very popular system offering both film and digital with excellent lenses in plentiful supply and at ridiculously low prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted January 17, 2017 Share #346 Posted January 17, 2017 Yesterday I asked Leica via email about the development of this 30mm PC lens for the S. The answer came in during that very same morning: There won't be a 30mm shift lens for the S. The way to go is the Sinar shift camera + a new back 30/45 developed around the S(007) camera. ¿Lenses to be used? Rodenstock and Schneider, and via an adapter, the S lenses with internal shutter. That's it. It's to bad they decided to can it, when the S2 was introduced, this photo actually showed both a 30 T/S and a 350: So they must at least have made some calculations on it. The 350 is maybe more of a "nisch market" then the 30T/S, but both should actually be very useful also on the SL-system with the adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 17, 2017 Share #347 Posted January 17, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) In many ways the unavailability of a film option is moot bearing in mind the relatively small image circle the S lenses are designed for. Smaller even than 645. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted January 17, 2017 Share #348 Posted January 17, 2017 In many ways the unavailability of a film option is moot bearing in mind the relatively small image circle the S lenses are designed for. Smaller even than 645. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I've been wondering a little bit about this. Are the lenses truly limited to the 54mm image circle? I'm still waiting for my first S-lens (the first one I got had fungus...) but I'm currently playing with making a "larger dummy sensor" to see it that could be an option . If Leica were to increase the sensor size to say 50mm*35mm (60,65mm image circle) and at the same time bump the resolution to 80MP (if they keep the pixel pitch of 6u it would get 48MP) it might get competetive again: "Standard sensor": 50*35mm: Of course I don't know if this actually will work with all the sensor, but the S-mount seems at least able to handle an increased sensor size. Maybe a new S008 mirrorless body with focal plane shutter also could be an option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted January 17, 2017 Share #349 Posted January 17, 2017 I doubt the image quality holds up outside the current sensor size, but I just did a VERY unscientific test estimating the image circle of the 70 Summarit by holding it up near a window and projecting onto a ruled piece of paper and I got SOME image over a 69mm diameter circle. Maybe I'll mount the S lenses on my friend's Graflex Super D and do a proper test --Matt Looking back, statements made at the S2 intro were clear that there was no room for a larger image circle - whatever that means - but that higher pixel pitch was planned for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 17, 2017 Share #350 Posted January 17, 2017 but I just did a VERY unscientific test estimating the image circle of the 70 Summarit by holding it up near a window and projecting onto a ruled piece of paper and I got SOME image over a 69mm diameter circle. Was that projected circle with the lens at the correct distance from the film/sensor plane? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted January 17, 2017 Share #351 Posted January 17, 2017 I doubt the image quality holds up outside the current sensor size, but I just did a VERY unscientific test estimating the image circle of the 70 Summarit by holding it up near a window and projecting onto a ruled piece of paper and I got SOME image over a 69mm diameter circle. Maybe I'll mount the S lenses on my friend's Graflex Super D and do a proper test --Matt Looking back, statements made at the S2 intro were clear that there was no room for a larger image circle - whatever that means - but that higher pixel pitch was planned for. The mirrorbox is very tight (although my dummy fits all the way), so that might be a limiting factor. But the most interesting aspect is what the lenses actually can do. A new mirrorless body could very well support a larger sensor. Maybe a new mount which allows S-lenses with adaptor, hmm, sounds very much like a X1D :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted January 17, 2017 Share #352 Posted January 17, 2017 Was that projected circle with the lens at the correct distance from the film/sensor plane? The lens was focused at infinity and the image on the paper of a distant object was as sharp as I could make it in this horribly hand-held estimated experiment. At least I DID put measuring marks on the paper, and I wasn't "hmmm.. looks like 69 mm to me", but it was close! I would not take it at all seriously. I was a bit surprised that it was clearly larger than the necessary ~54.1mm needed to cover the sensor, but I fully expect the MTF chart to be laughably bad outside the necessary image circle. Lens design is all compromise, and why would any designer waste effort outside the image? --Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share #353 Posted January 17, 2017 and why would any designer waste effort outside the image? --Matt They could do that if they expected one day to have a bigger sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faranstudio Posted January 18, 2017 Share #354 Posted January 18, 2017 I've been wondering a little bit about this. Are the lenses truly limited to the 54mm image circle? I'm still waiting for my first S-lens (the first one I got had fungus...) but I'm currently playing with making a "larger dummy sensor" to see it that could be an option . If Leica were to increase the sensor size to say 50mm*35mm (60,65mm image circle) and at the same time bump the resolution to 80MP (if they keep the pixel pitch of 6u it would get 48MP) it might get competetive again: "Standard sensor": 50*35mm: Of course I don't know if this actually will work with all the sensor, but the S-mount seems at least able to handle an increased sensor size. Maybe a new S008 mirrorless body with focal plane shutter also could be an option. If they move to a higher MP sensor (70+) I will get back in to S system again. Not sure but I think the next announcement for the new S (if that happens) will be in two to three year (correct me if I'm wrong). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted January 18, 2017 Share #355 Posted January 18, 2017 If they move to a higher MP sensor (70+) I will get back in to S system again. Not sure but I think the next announcement for the new S (if that happens) will be in two to three year (correct me if I'm wrong). When S2 was introduced in 2009 it was very "right" in terms of speed, handling and resolution. But I think that it was a big mistake by Leica not to bump the resolution when the S007 was introduced in 2015. Instead they decided to make "the worlds fastest medium format camera". For most people 37.5MP is of course more than enough, but in the segment where the camera is selling all competitors have moved up to at least 50MP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted January 18, 2017 Share #356 Posted January 18, 2017 On digiloyd there is an account from a reader that says they had head from several sources that Leica has all but abandoned the S System and it has put the S R&D budget into the SL. It's looking like another R scenario. Got this off LUL yesterday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan.y Posted January 18, 2017 Share #357 Posted January 18, 2017 On digiloyd there is an account from a reader that says they had head from several sources that Leica has all but abandoned the S System and it has put the S R&D budget into the SL. It's looking like another R scenario. Got this off LUL yesterday Now I'm going to quote you on Fred Miranda Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted January 18, 2017 Share #358 Posted January 18, 2017 Now I'm going to quote you on Fred Miranda Cool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share #359 Posted January 18, 2017 On digiloyd there is an account from a reader that says they had head from several sources that Leica has all but abandoned the S System and it has put the S R&D budget into the SL. It's looking like another R scenario. Got this off LUL yesterday Leica have some explaining to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted January 18, 2017 Share #360 Posted January 18, 2017 Leica have some explaining to do. I guess even if they stop making the Leica S system they will at lease service it as and when it needs it..............IRDGAF what happens with it as I plan to just shoot LF and MF film along with Leica SL for travel............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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