R3D-D0T Posted January 5, 2017 Share #281 Posted January 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wish there were a strong alternative to the Leica S. For studio there is Hasselblad, Phase One and others but none offer medium format weather sealing for in the field. And the S lenses are amazing. A shame they are unreliable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Jeff S Posted January 5, 2017 Share #282 Posted January 5, 2017 I wish there were a strong alternative to the Leica S. For studio there is Hasselblad, Phase One and others but none offer medium format weather sealing for in the field. And the S lenses are amazing. A shame they are unreliable. The Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX are both offering weather protection for camera and dedicated lenses. We'll see how they compare practically to the S once users have some inclement weather experiences. And both have larger sensors than the S with 50+MP. The lens lines will take time to develop, but Fuji already has 5-6 planned for 2017. Of course they lack the beautiful S OVF. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted January 5, 2017 Share #283 Posted January 5, 2017 GFX50s will be a very good alternative to the S or might I say a better alternative than the S as it will have newer tech and also arguably better tech in sensor technology. Lens, I will say it should be on par cause I personally don't think Leica S lens is the best of the best, but it's suitable for what it does, I guess most will disagree with me. hahahah. Anyway, given the unreliability of the S, this will make any modern digital MF camera be more attractive option to the S. just my 0.5 cent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share #284 Posted January 5, 2017 I look forward to seeing what the Fuji can do. I'm not so much interested in the Hasselblad X1D because my guess is the first lenses will be indicative of the rest; ie. slow, unless they have different size leaf shutters for other lenses which is highly unlikely given the R+D and manufacturing costs. An electronic shutter for such a large sensor without rolling shutter is unlikely for at least few generations. So no adapting of lenses unless someone makes an external shutter - that's a while off I feel, if at all and mostly likely not entirely reliable. The S wins for me on rendering by a long margin, but it is not something I can risk. It seems like a crazy mans game to think you can switch systems at this point and reliably count on it as a professional tool, playing russian roulette with your career. It's a no go and that is a shame because what I see in the S is what I want. What's left is the Hasselblad and Phase One. I will continue using the Hasselblad for now, so back to square one. Very frustrating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted January 5, 2017 Share #285 Posted January 5, 2017 I look forward to seeing what the Fuji can do. I'm not so much interested in the Hasselblad X1D because my guess is the first lenses will be indicative of the rest; ie. slow, unless they have different size leaf shutters for other lenses which is highly unlikely given the R+D and manufacturing costs. An electronic shutter for such a large sensor without rolling shutter is unlikely for at least few generations. So no adapting of lenses unless someone makes an external shutter - that's a while off I feel, if at all and mostly likely not entirely reliable. The S wins for me on rendering by a long margin, but it is not something I can risk. It seems like a crazy mans game to think you can switch systems at this point and reliably count on it as a professional tool, playing russian roulette with your career. It's a no go and that is a shame because what I see in the S is what I want. What's left is the Hasselblad and Phase One. I will continue using the Hasselblad for now, so back to square one. Very frustrating! Russian roulette? The problem is mainly with AF on the lenses (and the service of these). Let's say MTBF is as bad as 2 years (until at permanent solution is found, hopefully to come soon) , and you have a kit of 4 lenses to play with, and a good relation to a reputable dealer who can provide loaners in case of failure ? I would hardly call this Russian roulette. A failure, especially during a pro shoot, it of course serious, but can be handled if you have a decent kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share #286 Posted January 5, 2017 Russian roulette? The problem is mainly with AF on the lenses (and the service of these). Let's say MTBF is as bad as 2 years (until at permanent solution is found, hopefully to come soon) , and you have a kit of 4 lenses to play with, and a good relation to a reputable dealer who can provide loaners in case of failure ? I would hardly call this Russian roulette. A failure, especially during a pro shoot, it of course serious, but can be handled if you have a decent kit. Yes, it is very serious if it fails on a pro shoot. If decent kit means to have two of every lens you need then, sure - happy days. Lets spend another £30-40,000 just in case shall we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted January 5, 2017 Share #287 Posted January 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, it is very serious if it fails on a pro shoot. If decent kit means to have two of every lens you need then, sure - happy days. Lets spend another £30-40,000 just in case shall we? ... which is a total misrepresentation of what I said (and you know it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share #288 Posted January 5, 2017 ... which is a total misrepresentation of what I said (and you know it). I misunderstand you then. How could there be any other work around other than have 2 of each lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted January 5, 2017 Share #289 Posted January 5, 2017 Supposedly the S equipment is labeled pro by default and goes to an expedited queue that is handled first .... so rather than sit in box until they get around to opening it ... it is seen to early. Also suggested that there is a reorganization of the hierarchy in customer service to help improve service times. I assume that at some future point it will all run a bit quicker. But he states they are very serious about changing the situation and they are very concerned at its effect on customer retention and sales in general. Bob There seems to be a big difference in customer support for the S system between Europe and the US (possibly other locations, too). I have 7 S lenses of which two have failed so far (AF). But they were both back within 1-2 weeks. Same situation with the S2/S007 bodies - whatever issues these had, the cameras were back to me in about a week to 10 days. And both dealers in Vienna (Leica Shop and Leica Store) have been very supportive; the same can be said about the S team from Wetzlar whom I have been able to contact by email for advice and solution to some issues (e.g. specific fw to remap the S007 sensor).Entirely different experience with the M system, where I had to wait 10 week for a shutter replacement in a nearly new M-P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBart Posted January 5, 2017 Share #290 Posted January 5, 2017 I've had my 006 with 3 lenses for about 3.5 years. I admit it's been very difficult when it comes to reliability but I just can't see myself getting something else because Leica has incredible image quality. It's the end results. Plus, I'm seeing some improvement with service and Leica seems to be addressing their issue with poor service. I've been told all kinds of reasons for the service issues. As a professional photographer, the excuses really don't matter but results do. So far I had to exchange 2 bodies and all 3 lenses had the autofocus issue. I have the 24mm, 30-90mm and 120mm CS. Keep in mind that I bought my lenses about 3.5 years ago. The first 2 lenses that were sent out after malfunction took 8-10 weeks to return from Germany. A few months ago, my 24mm had the autofocus malfunction. I was surprised because Leica saw that I had so many past issues that they out right gave me a new lens so I didn't have to wait. This made me very happy and restored hope in Leica fixing their customer support issues. I would expect that anyone buying any lenses over the past year would have very little or no issues with the well known autofocus malfunction. They should have updated all new stock. The part that is faulty was supposed to be a new improved part. So far all my repaired lenses are working well. Based on recent conversations with people at Leica, the S system is here to stay and they have more lenses in the works. I'm hearing about a 30mm PC or TS lens. Leica customers have also been pressuring for higher resolution and Leica seems to be listening. I'm holding for when the 008 comes out. Would be nice to be in the 50MP range. I also wouldn't mind if they went mirrorless. We'll see. The SL system is very interesting. I plan on investing in that system once more lenses come out. Leica is rather creative, I look forward to see what they come out with in the coming year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 6, 2017 Share #291 Posted January 6, 2017 The Fuji GFX is now rumored to be priced at $6500, body only, with initial 3 lenses from $1500 to $2600 (and 2-3 more on the way this year). Considering its 43.8 x 32.9 sensor, 51.4 MP and weather sealing, Leica will have its work cut out if Fuji delivers a reliable, well received system. A lot has changed since the S2 was introduced at over 20 grand. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted January 6, 2017 Share #292 Posted January 6, 2017 Phillip II of Macedon: "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." Spartans: "If." Or in a more modern setting: "If" is a big man. - Football coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 6, 2017 Share #293 Posted January 6, 2017 As in, IF Leica ever fixes its lens/service/communications issues. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted January 6, 2017 Share #294 Posted January 6, 2017 The Fuji GFX is now rumored to be priced at $6500, body only, with initial 3 lenses from $1500 to $2600 (and 2-3 more on the way this year). Considering its 43.8 x 32.9 sensor, 51.4 MP and weather sealing, Leica will have its work cut out if Fuji delivers a reliable, well received system. A lot has changed since the S2 was introduced at over 20 grand. Jeff I think the first general GFX will have slow operating issue (slow AF slow shutter) as in their XPro1. let's wait for the gen 2. hahaha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 6, 2017 Author Share #295 Posted January 6, 2017 The Fuji GFX is now rumored to be priced at $6500, body only, with initial 3 lenses from $1500 to $2600 (and 2-3 more on the way this year). Considering its 43.8 x 32.9 sensor, 51.4 MP and weather sealing, Leica will have its work cut out if Fuji delivers a reliable, well received system. A lot has changed since the S2 was introduced at over 20 grand. Jeff At these prices I think everyone will have their work cut out for them, canon, nikon, you name it. This really could be the end of the 35mm camera in some segments of the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted January 7, 2017 Share #296 Posted January 7, 2017 [...] I'm hearing about a 30mm PC or TS lens. [...] Where did you hear about that lens? What source do you have? Many would buy it immediately, myself included. Happy New Year, and cheers from Barcelona Manolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted January 7, 2017 Share #297 Posted January 7, 2017 GFX50s will be a very good alternative to the S or might I say a better alternative than the S as it will have newer tech and also arguably better tech in sensor technology. Lens, I will say it should be on par cause I personally don't think Leica S lens is the best of the best, but it's suitable for what it does, I guess most will disagree with me. hahahah. Anyway, given the unreliability of the S, this will make any modern digital MF camera be more attractive option to the S. just my 0.5 cent. How do you know that the sensor in the GFX is "arguably better", I know the S-007 has been around for a few years now but so has that Sony sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 7, 2017 Share #298 Posted January 7, 2017 How do you know that the sensor in the GFX is "arguably better", I know the S-007 has been around for a few years now but so has that Sony sensor? We don't know much without actual tests and reviews. But we do know that it's 70% bigger than the S sensor, with 51.4 MP, and that was assisted by proprietary Fuji specifications, which each manufacturer refines to integrate with its overall system operation. IQ depends on many factors, as David Farkas reminded us when Leica decided to stick with 37.5 MP.... http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/11/why-leica-is-staying-at-37-5mp-for-the-s-typ-007/ We'll see. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted January 7, 2017 Share #299 Posted January 7, 2017 How do you know that the sensor in the GFX is "arguably better", I know the S-007 has been around for a few years now but so has that Sony sensor? yeah man sounds like X1D talk and it's not even out yet fanboys... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted January 7, 2017 Share #300 Posted January 7, 2017 Maybe I quoted incorrectly because I was asking about the technology of the sensor, e.g noise and DR. IQ is of course much more complex and in that sense I, very subjectively , thinks that the CCD the sensor in the S-006 is superb. Again, my reason for questioning the statement was mostly about the technology since the two sensors must be roughly the same age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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