Revisiting 35mm Film Scanners

[250swb]

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Wow I have just read this thread and I am none the wiser.............I'm thinking the 8000i but also thinking the 120i. According to B&H the 120i dpi is 5000 the 8000i is 7200.......so I'm confused. I would like a scanner that can easily print at A2 and maybe even bigger?

 

The Plustek 120 can do 10,600 dpi when scanning 35mm, and some people will argue about manufacturers claims and interpolation etc., but nevertheless the 120 does give you a very large file (even using 5000 dpi). Some will say a very large file is just wasted information, but they miss the point. If your next step is to mimic the darkroom and actually improve your image by dodging and burning (and all the other things digital post processing can do) pixels do become important. With a digital camera the more pixels you have the more you can manipulate the image before tones separate and become posterised. The same applies to post processing a scan, a 6mb file can barely be touched creatively before it breaks down, so you are better off with a 35mb image even if working toward the same sized end image.

[ramarren]

Ian - you're right: there is third-party service for Nikon, as I just found out in a web search— I had taken someone's word for it without checking. Also, I found that Amazon.com has a few new Nikon Coolscan 5000s for about US$3,900 (also some for about US$5,000; the FH-3 35MM Film Strip Holder is US$33. Not surprisingly the US$3,900 price is over three times what this scanner cost when production was stopped over 10 (?) years ago. However, I'd be reluctant to pay this much for a machine that has been out of production for so long.

 

The Hasselblad X1 looks like a better deal, but still a huge amount of money. If I were spending that much I'd have to find out whether the holder slippage is still a problem, as it was with the Imacon FlexTight Precision III that I mentioned in post #4. Unless Hasselblad has changed the holder material or the feed mechanism, I would still think holder slippage is still be a problem, although it could be that is dependents on the ambient humidity. 

 

I've just shoot three rolls of film for the first time in 10 years (TRi-X with my M6) and will be considering whether to shift back to my M6 from the M9-P and M-Monochrom. Apart from the look that I can get from film (yet not decided), the scanning solution will be a major consideration that could stop me from shooting with film.

 

I've also read about a bit about scanners on http://www.filmscanner.info. Their scanner reviews are reasonably informative, but they don't always look at each scanner with the same criteria. On the PlusTek 120 they raise issues about the lack of autofocus (can make it necessary to rescan fairly often), dMax (they find it to be only 3.2 and able to reach 4.01 only with Silverfast multi-scanning), and slow (because of the need for multi-scanning, so that a 35mm frame takes about 9 minutes). That makes the Coolscan 5000 look a lot better.

 

All this is not very encouraging: if the best non-prohibitively priced scanner (Plustek 120) is not that good. In my experience with the Imacon Precision III, I learned that dMax is important (particularly if you like shooting into the light and want high contrast with good mid-tones); the other important thing is scanning time, when it gets towards 10 minutes a frame. Of course, if I would make darkroom prints scanning would not be an issue...but I won't do that.

 

 

A well-kept, second-hand Nikon Coolscan V ED is a much better deal than the Super Coolscan 5000, unless you need the automated full-roll scanning ability. Prices in the US$500-700 range easily. On the other hand, if I really needed the top of the line capabilities, I'd have no problem buying one of the few new ones still available.

 

I've stuck with the Nikons even though they're long out of date because the remain amongst the best made, best supported scanners on the market. Nikon's not supporting them anymore, either with software or repairs, but third parties are. I use VueScan exclusively, have been for 16 years, and have never needed a service in the past 11 years of Nikon scanner ownership.

 

Ed Hamrick (author of VueScan) opined to me ages ago that the Nikons were the standard of the industry in build quality and reliability. I see no evidence to indicate otherwise. 

[chrism]

For the record, the film slippage issue with Imacon/Hasselblad Flextight scanners isn't related to the drive belts. It's a function of bending the negative carrier as it goes in and out of the scanner—it is a three layer sandwich, with a metal base, the negative strip, and the magnetic flap on top. The film strip is most firmly anchored at the top end which enters first. As the carrier bends, the magnetic flap has to adopt a greater radius than the metal base and it moves upwards because it is attached to the base at the top end—you will often see a small ruck in it as the carrier comes back out. The more times the carrier goes in and out, the more this is apparent as the flap ratchets its way up with each trip. A holder like the 24x36x6 will make several trips in and out and the negatives move slightly out of register as it does so. It's not an issue with a single frame negative carrier. My fix is to use some Micropore paper tape to hold the corners of the film strip at the bottom end of the carrier so the film can't move with the magnetic flap. Outside that, the machines are a dream to use.

 

Chris

[Guest]

Chris - Thanks, I'll try what you suggest. However, I use a single frame negative carrier and also have the problem of the trailing edge being unsharp: several people on the Yahoo Imacon Group think its the drive belt slippage that causes the latter problem.

[chrism]

Chris - Thanks, I'll try what you suggest. However, I use a single frame negative carrier and also have the problem of the trailing edge being unsharp: several people on the Yahoo Imacon Group think its the drive belt slippage that causes the latter problem.

 

Unsharp? You are probably right. I assumed the issue was the de-registration that will turn the last frame of six into a 4:3 instead of a 2:3 format. The Yahoo group is a wonderful resource.

[EoinC]

Not quite on-topic, but I'm in the process of putting together a digitizing set-up as a by-product experiment. I have a Canon MP-E 65mm 1X - 5X Macro lens and a Cognysis Stackshot step motor focus rail coming in next week. I have other plans for both, but also want to try compiling stacked, bracketed, panoramas of some 35mm and 120 frames. Planned sequence is small focus stack for each bracket (3 brackets of normal / all highlights / all shadows), and repeat for however many sets required to cover the full frame with ~30% overlap in a panorama (I'm planning on starting with 4 for a 35mm frame).

I'll use my existing A7R, copy stand, and light table. The good thing with the A7R is I can do Live View on an iPad, including controlling shutter speed for exposure (and setting the aperture - although it will remain the same throughout shooting, I may need to go wide open each time I set up focus).

The MP-E is a very interesting lens, having no focusing ring (focus is by moving the camera backwards or forwards). At f/5.6, it is very sharp, but requires quite a lot of light at the higher magnifications. It works on tiny depth of field, hence the likelihood of having to focus stack, at least in a limited stack. At 5X and f/16, DOF is 0.269mm. It's worth taking a look at some of the stacked shots on the Flickr MP-E group https://www.flickr.com/groups/14414927@N00/pool/with/26448543885/ (noting that the site contains quite a few photo's not taken with the MP-E).

 

I doubt if this is a practical setup for regular digitizing, but I'm looking forward to piecing it together. I already use some other Cognysis gear (solenoid valve system for water drop photography), and it is very good. The Stackshot Focus Rail has repeatable stepping down to 2 um.

 

I can see a wonderful round of frustration ahead, for no particular benefit, other than to stir the grey cells a bit, and to get to know some new kit. I figure, if I can get this functional, it will help me with moving on to other macro shots. I'll have to keep an eye on file size, as a 3 Focus / 3 Bracket / 4 Pano set is 36 images at 36MB each. Stacking will bring it down to 12 images, which then get reduced to 3 bracketed panoramas, which can be pulled together in a straightforward HDR merge. I'm relocating to another Country this week, so may not get time to try it until after the move, but I'm interested to see what the mini-microscope reveals.

[gbealnz]

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Wow Eoin, makes my humble BEOON seem positively boring.

If you are not using it immediately, my first thought was to get Neil to test drive it for you. Courier it to his rig, LOL.

Gary

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I'm looking forward to seeing your set up mate.............we will be able to compare the Leica S to your Canon and Sony.

I wish my S-006 had live view but no worries , I will just have to bend over and if I cant I've always got Nuk to help ne out

[EoinC]

I'm looking forward to seeing your set up mate.............we will be able to compare the Leica S to your Canon and Sony.

I wish my S-006 had live view but no worries , I will just have to bend over and if I cant I've always got Nuk to help ne out

Cheers, Neil and Gary.

 

It's looking like I probably won't get to cobble it together this week, as I don't think the MP-E will be available until mid-week, and I'm packing my apartment up at that time. I'm looking forward to playing with that lens, and I really like the Cognysis kit (waterdrop photography is an exercise in boiling frustration, which makes it even better when you get it right).

[EoinC]

I received the Stack Shot, and the MP-E turned up today... After I'd packed everything. Looks like I won't get to try this for another week+. I might grab a camera tomorrow though, and have a play with the lens. It's a bizarre piece of kit. Looking through it at 5x magnification is pretty impressive.

[Guest]

Just received the Leitz BEOON stand from someone in Oz. Below is the first image I digitalized with it, using my M-Monochrom. Fast, of course; and the BEOON is smaller and lighter than I thought it would be — that makes it portable enough for me to take it on my nomadic trips to three continents each year. However, right now, I'm using a Logan/flourescent light box. I find the focusing with the BEOON not that easy — does anyone know whether it would be easier with an LED light box?

 

 

M6 | DR-Summicron 50 | Tri-X @1600 D76

Chiang Mai

[EoinC]

Just received the Leitz BEOON stand from someone in Oz. Below is the first image I digitalized with it, using my M-Monochrom. Fast, of course; and the BEOON is smaller and lighter than I thought it would be — that makes it portable enough for me to take it on my nomadic trips to three continents each year. However, right now, I'm using a Logan/flourescent light box. I find the focusing with the BEOON not that easy — does anyone know whether it would be easier with an LED light box?

 

 

M6 | DR-Summicron 50 | Tri-X @1600 D76

 

It looks good to me. Gary from NZ is the man for all things BEOONy.

OT - Are you based in Chiang Mai? I have a house about 100km to the South East in Lampang.

[gbealnz]

NoWhereMan

Not sure I am THE man BEOON wise, but I have one.

Great little device, I used mine with the Fuji X cameras, and my Leica T, so I was always using a FF device with an APS chip, not ideal. Additionally, I used an Apo Rodogon enlarging lens, I have them for the darkroom, and they are beyond good, after all they are designed for this "sort" of work.

I too struggled for light from below, until I passed through HK last year, and found an LED panel. In the end I think it is a ceiling lighting panel, but irrespective of that, it is what I now use. I make a frame for it, and have a cardboard mask that has the required 35m opening in the center, so stray light doesn't flood past the neg being copied.

I never had too much (or any really) issue focusing, I used focus peaking with the Fujis and T.

Worked a treat. I still have mine, but of late found and am enjoying a Plustek 8100 scanner.

Use it, and enjoy it, try an LED panel, and also if you can, an enlarging lens.

Gary

 

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[gbealnz]

The pic just attached shows it in use, but doesn't show the nice neat frame I made, nor the black card mask. The frame is cosmetic, but the mask is almost essential, I reckon.

Gary

[Guest]

Thanks, Gary. A few questions, if I may:

 

1. Why is the mask essential? Is the hole in the mask 24x36mm?

 

2. Why do you now prefer using the Plustek 8100 instead of the BEOON? From what I've read the Plustek scanners require multiscanning to get from dynamic range of 3.6 to 4.0 (about 1-⅓ stope more)? And that multi-scanning takes about 20 minutes per frame/

[gbealnz]

Mask is to my mind essential in that it is such an easy way to reduce/eliminate the stray light coming around the outer section of the BEOON base section. 5 minutes with a sharp knife, and the hole is slightly bigger than the 24x36 required. It could be 40x60 even, as the majority of "masking" is done via the clip on mask that is the BEOON section anyway.

 

Plustek is slightly more convenient to me. Better? Nope, not yet, despite what the Doc says (private joke between Doc Henry and myself). It has all the dynamic range I want, and in some respects is as fast etc. No, it certainly hasn't taken me 20 minutes per frame, heck if it did I'd be back the old way, with the BEOON.

 

Gary

[Guest]

I've just spent the greater part of two days trying to make good "scans" with a BEOON that I bought from someone in Oz. It looks good: spotless with no scratches. 

 

However, using an M-Monohrom, and trying two 50mm lenses (Summilux-50 pre-ASPH and the DR Summicron) and, following the Leitz instructions in setting the lens at f/11 and the focus at infinity, I've found it extremely difficult to hit focus as well as negatives that were scanned for me on an Epson V800 at a small lab in Chiang Mai. My feeling is that the BEOON would work much better for someone using a camera with live view.

 

As I can't spend more time on this, tomorrow I'll probably decide to sell the BEOON, at the same low price at which I bought it. I'm not about to buy a a variety of the Sony A7 just to use with the BEOON.

[gbealnz]

Makes sense, now anyway, to me. I didn't realise the MM wasn't "Live-View". It would be difficult to say the least.

 

The BEOON is made for non-live view, as in the "old" film cameras, but possibly we are expecting a bit much.

 

Certainly how I use(d) mine with the T and Fujis, no issues at all.

Gary

[Guest]

I figured out the problem: I was stupidly setting the lens to f/11, which is the aperture the BEOON manual states should be used for copying; but, of course, the lens should be set to it's maximum aperture (f/2 for the DR Summicron) for focusing, and then stopped down — that gives perfect focus every time. 

 

Incidentally, I find that the BEOON/MM/DR-Summicron gives substantially more dynamic range than the scan I have that was done with the Epson V800.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[gbealnz]

Ah, perfect. So, it is staying, for now?

Try it, use it, and take some time with it.

Also try (if you can access one) a decent enlarging lens as well, they are what should work best in it.

Gary