wattsy Posted December 8, 2015 Share #221 Posted December 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Therefore it would seem that using the right eye for photography with the left eye closed is more simulative to the creative function. Although I am not sure if this is reversed with a left handed person Yes, I understand all that left brain, right brain stuff (a former forum regular used to trot it out regularly as evidence that he was a creative person) but I still don't think many people use a camera viewfinder other than with their dominant eye, whether that is their left or right eye and irrespective of viewfinder type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Hi wattsy, Take a look here Leica SL a real camera for the pro.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LocalHero1953 Posted December 8, 2015 Share #222 Posted December 8, 2015 Not everything. : The rangfinder experience. IMHO it is different of using a SLR or SL for this meaning. The rangfinder forces you to take a picture with you right eye, thus using a different part of your brain. The SLR cameras are mostly used with the left eye. Blackening the other eye in the proces. I believe that Erwin Puts wrote a nice article about it some 15/20 years ago in the Dutch magazine: FOTO I've been doing it wrong all my life? And going against EP's views? This is my worst day, ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted December 8, 2015 Share #223 Posted December 8, 2015 ............................................ Colonel, you're not wrong, from your standpoint. But change your standpoint and it all looks a bit different. We have to distinguish facts from preferences and habits. .................. If a fact is irrelevant to you, it doesn't stop it being a fact. It may be misleading, and not a fact, to say the SL can do everything the M can do and more, because it only can for some people. But for others, there are important, perhaps even critically and decisively important things the SL can't do that the M can. These are still all facts though. It's just that some facts are more relevant to some people than to others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 8, 2015 Share #224 Posted December 8, 2015 The other things seem to me to be squeezing a square into a round hole. Many things will go with force of course, but its not natural .... A bit like the Visoflex (of any vintage up to the present day) then, or adding goggles to a lens, or the frankenfinder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted December 8, 2015 Share #225 Posted December 8, 2015 Yes, I understand all that left brain, right brain stuff (a former forum regular used to trot it out regularly as evidence that he was a creative person) but I still don't think many people use a camera viewfinder other than with their dominant eye, whether that is their left or right eye and irrespective of viewfinder type. As neither my left eye nor right eye produces particularly creative photos I assume that one half of my brain is dead. The half that remains working allows me to operate the shutter button "He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." Douglas Adams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 8, 2015 Share #226 Posted December 8, 2015 If a fact is irrelevant to you, it doesn't stop it being a fact. It may be misleading, and not a fact, to say the SL can do everything the M can do and more, because it only can for some people. But for others, there are important, perhaps even critically and decisively important things the SL can't do that the M can. These are still all facts though. It's just that some facts are more relevant to some people than to others. Indeed, but we all have a tendency (amply demonstrated on this forum) to express our personal "facts" as conclusions of universal application. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 8, 2015 Share #227 Posted December 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not everything. : The rangfinder experience. IMHO it is different of using a SLR or SL for this meaning. The rangfinder forces you to take a picture with you right eye, thus using a different part of your brain. The SLR cameras are mostly used with the left eye. Blackening the other eye in the proces. I believe that Erwin Puts wrote a nice article about it some 15/20 years ago in the Dutch magazine: FOTO Well, if (D)SLRs blacken my right eye it is another reason to prefer rangefinders... I'm not that keen on heamatomas... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted December 8, 2015 Share #228 Posted December 8, 2015 Indeed, but we all have a tendency (amply demonstrated on this forum) to express our personal "facts" as conclusions of universal application. Yes, I believe that is a fact! It works both ways though. So can we agree that this is a factual statement: The SL cannot do everything that the M can do, and the M cannot do everything that the SL can do. So which is the more capable camera is not so much a matter of fact as a question of very individual choices, based on our personal weightings of the importance to each of us of the different features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 8, 2015 Share #229 Posted December 8, 2015 We are all solipsists at heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted December 8, 2015 Share #230 Posted December 8, 2015 Splitting the brain A radical operation to separate the two halves is sometimes used to treat extreme forms of epilepsy. Studies of separated-hemisphere patients gave early understanding of differences. A split-brain person on the surface may seem quite normal, yet they will also display some very interesting behaviors. Roger Sperry won the Nobel Prize in 1981 for his work in this area. Michael Gazzaniga, one of Sperry's students, developed this understanding further. Left brain The left brain (or dominant hemisphere) has a focus in analysis, extracting individual elements of experience. It is good at recognizing serial events. The left brain also controls speech. If the left brain is damaged or something is shown to the right eye of a split patient, the person may recognize the item but cannot name it. When thinking is verbal, it can seem that the conscious mind is in the left brain. Some of the strange effects that can be seen in split-brain people include: The left hand will put down a book that is being enjoyed by the verbal left brain, because it does not stimulate the right brain, which controls the left hand. The left hand may surprisingly make obscene gestures as it reflects right-brain emotion. Consciousness is often associated with the left brain as the verbal areas allow us to put perception into words. Right brain The right brain has a focus in synthesis, putting together elements to understand the whole. The ability to understand maps and draw pictures is thus a right-brain activity. It is typically thought of as being 'creative' in contrast to the left-brain's language-driven logic. Some of the effects that can be seen in split-brain people include: Show a spoon to just the left eye and the person cannot name it, but they can draw it. Apply a smell to the right nostril and they say they smell nothing. Show the command 'laugh' to the right eye and the person laughs, but does not 'know' why they did so. The right brain also manages temporal and spatial relationships and analyzes nonverbal information. It is also used in communication of emotion. For photography ? Therefore it would seem that using the right eye for photography with the left eye closed is more simulative to the creative function. Although I am not sure if this is reversed with a left handed person The problem with this analysis, however, is that it is not the left eye that projects to the right brain, but the left visual field (the left half of each eye). Looking through the left or right eye will equally present information to both the left and the right brain. In fact, in split brain research you have to flash an image for a very short duration to just one side of a computer monitor to present information to only one side of the brain. This clearly is not happening in photography. In addition, unless you have had surgery to cut the corpus callous that connects the two sides of the brain then anything sent to one side of the brain is shared with the other side of the brain. So, for photography it makes not difference if you use your left or right eye with regard to how your brain uses information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted December 8, 2015 Share #231 Posted December 8, 2015 We are all solipsists at heart. Well, I know I am. I'm not so sure about you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted December 8, 2015 Share #232 Posted December 8, 2015 I've just been reading through this whilst eating my lunch for once I'm lost fot words! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted December 8, 2015 Share #233 Posted December 8, 2015 I've just been reading through this whilst eating my lunch for once I'm lost fot words! In respect to your lunch!! Or == all the jibberjabber!!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 8, 2015 Share #234 Posted December 8, 2015 The SL may be overtaken very soon as the new M comes. It cannot be expected that the EVF and possibly sensor will remain the same. That makes the SL an expensive gamble in my book (sorry, Leica, it would boost sales, I know ) My point is that I made a choice for the M system long ago for good (to me) reasons, and that the SL does not change any of those reasons. It's all very well sticking with the M as your first choice. The rest is daft. Overtaken in what respect (think carefully about your response, Jaap)? Expensive gamble? How? The SL is what it is - we're getting a good picture of that now. Unless of course you buy cameras based on a continual cycle of upgrades ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted December 8, 2015 Share #235 Posted December 8, 2015 I just want to be clear. I only post on this forum when I am not shooting .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share #236 Posted December 8, 2015 That's the first time I've heard this. I think most people use their dominant eye, irrespective of the type of viewfinder. Naturally, it is a little more awkward for left-eye dominant people to use a Leica RF but it's not something you can't get used to fairly quickly. Some people have one very dominant eye. My father had such a dominant left eye, that he had to learn to shoot his rifle with his lefthand triggerfinger. I use my left eye for the Nikon D3 and my right eye for the MP/M10. Before I had the D3 i did the same with the F4 and the F3. The nice thng was, that I experience the "different eye" between the F3 and the M6 as a very natural thing. Maybe, the DSLR , like the EVF forces us to keep one eye shut? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted December 8, 2015 Share #237 Posted December 8, 2015 I agree with you, but that one will be hotly contested. Unjustly so - one should consider that we are talking two generations of sensor here, and the older one -and Leica's first attempt at a CMOS M sensor- is still good enough to be considered the equal of the newer SL sensor. It would be foolish not to wait what the next M brings to the table in this game of quality leapfrog. The SL is what it is … i.e. primarily an AF SL and TL lens platform … but for which Leica inevitably also provided M, S, R and Cine lens compatibility/capability. 'R' lens users are probably better catered for than M lens users because their longer R lenses suit the SL body better than e.g. the M 240, Sony FF, and any Canon FF DSLR. Personally, for me the SL is a far better 'R' solution (when I have the ££ to buy) than the M240; and I will happily buy the SL as a b/o. For others, the SL's M compatibility is probably more of a bonus if they have the 24-90 SL lens - rather than primarily an M platform. But I'm curious as to whether any M users have bought the SL solely for use with their M lenses. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 8, 2015 Share #238 Posted December 8, 2015 Not everything. : The rangfinder experience. IMHO it is different of using a SLR or SL for this meaning. The rangfinder forces you to take a picture with you right eye, thus using a different part of your brain. The SLR cameras are mostly used with the left eye. Blackening the other eye in the proces. I believe that Erwin Puts wrote a nice article about it some 15/20 years ago in the Dutch magazine: FOTO Not quite as common as bag threads, but just a sampling of discussions to the contrary.... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/156416-left-or-right-eyed-what-are-you/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/197140-right-eye-or-left-with-the-m/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/130815-left-eye-right-eye/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/191990-left-eye-shooting/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11669-left-or-right-eye/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/78971-left-eye-better-than-right-eye/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/40986-left-or-right-eyed-m-photography/ http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/22568-whos-happiest-left-or-right-eyed-leica-m8-shooters/ Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 8, 2015 Share #239 Posted December 8, 2015 Yes, I believe that is a fact! It works both ways though. So can we agree that this is a factual statement: The SL cannot do everything that the M can do, and the M cannot do everything that the SL can do. So which is the more capable camera is not so much a matter of fact as a question of very individual choices, based on our personal weightings of the importance to each of us of the different features. I am curious to discover what you think the SL cannot do that the M can do (aside from "be a rangefinder camera with an optical viewfinder", that is... ). I can't think of anything I can do with the M that I cannot do with the SL. I can think of several things I can do with the SL that I can't do with the M right off the bat (capture 11 fps, drive the AF in a lens from either the SL or T series, capture 4K video, make a 30 minute long time exposure, etc). I can't think of anything the M can do that the SL cannot with the exception, as before, of "be a rangefinder camera with an optical viewfinder". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 8, 2015 Share #240 Posted December 8, 2015 Not everything. : The rangfinder experience. IMHO it is different of using a SLR or SL for this meaning. The rangfinder forces you to take a picture with you right eye, thus using a different part of your brain. The SLR cameras are mostly used with the left eye. Blackening the other eye in the proces. I believe that Erwin Puts wrote a nice article about it some 15/20 years ago in the Dutch magazine: FOTO This is fundamentally incorrect. My understanding is that many excellent photographers are left eye shooters; I believe Tina Manley has said she is a left eye shooter regardless of camera, for example. I'm a right eye shooter, regardless of camera. When I have put a camera to my left eye, the camera never turned around and punched me in the right eye either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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