Steve Ricoh Posted November 7, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's often said a woman's work is never done! It's often said a woman's work is never done by Steve Wales, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Hi Steve Ricoh, Take a look here Woman's work never done . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stuny Posted November 8, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 8, 2015 Very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allamande Posted November 8, 2015 Share #3 Posted November 8, 2015 And it's often true! She is most likely running through her list in her head while getting to her next task. "FO" is for "forward" Well done! Ece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted November 8, 2015 Think it was FOrever 21, if I remember. But age is just a number, that's what I say. I stopped worrying about such matters a long time ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #5 Posted November 9, 2015 Not a Single interesting element in this phot to me. And the title is sexists, imho. "very nice" and "well done" comments are disingenuous. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted November 9, 2015 Don't apologise, we all have an opinion. I find your reaction interesting, hence the reason for thanking you for your comment above. Personally, if have no connection with a photo, I simply remain silent, there's no point in telling someone I don't like their picture. If I did I would be forever passing negative judgement on Flickr - no gain whatsoever. So for me it's either a 'thanks' or 'like' and possibly a positive comment, or if the picture does nothing for me I simply remain silent. But that's me and I appreciate we're all different. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allamande Posted November 9, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not a Single interesting element in this phot to me. And the title is sexists, imho. "very nice" and "well done" comments are disingenuous. Sorry. Adam, I'm sorry but you cannot speak for me and determine whether my comment is disingenuous or not. As a woman, I am probably more qualified then you, however, to have a valid opinion as to whether the title is sexist or not. It isn't. Ece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #8 Posted November 9, 2015 Don't apologise, we all have an opinion. I find your reaction interesting, hence the reason for thanking you for your comment above. Personally, if have no connection with a photo, I simply remain silent, there's no point in telling someone I don't like their picture. If I did I would be forever passing negative judgement on Flickr - no gain whatsoever. So for me it's either a 'thanks' or 'like' and possibly a positive comment, or if the picture does nothing for me I simply remain silent. But that's me and I appreciate we're all different. Cheers! Hi Steve - I am glad that you didn't take my comment personally. It most certainly wasn't intended that way. I agree with you on Flickr, which I why, although I am somewhat of an avid poster, I do not follow anyone or comment on their photos or play any other "quid pro quo" games. And I also agree that silence does sometime indeed speak volumes. And 90%+ of the time this is what I do. But over the years, I have found that explicit constructive commentary is what I have found most helpful in getting up the learning curve. And I have had PLENTY of this from people. We all post our images here for similar reasons, which is to obtain validation that our images are effective within whatever sub-forum they have been posted. Both from a technical perspective (including PP) as well as content. The validation is by no means an ego or selfish thing, but (at least for me) rather simply a bouncing board of sorts or another pair of eyes. I would never make a comment such as "very nice" or "well done" if I didn't mean it and couldn't back it up. When I see this I tend to cringe, and sometimes I just can't help myself but to respond. I took my time to make my comment in an effort to try to help you up your game. You obviously are spending a lot of time with this and have invested quite a large sum on your gear. Now you just need a honest and objective sounding board to offer a personal opinion on the merits of the "public interest" content of your photos. By no means do I only take my time to provide constructive comments. I also jump at the chance to comment positively whenever warranted. Seems like you might be in the London area. I am due there next week on business and would love the opportunity to buy you a beer and chat and possibly do some shooting one evening. Cheers, Adam Miller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted November 9, 2015 I actually felt for the lady in the street, however she was only doing what she had to do to earn a living, either as an employee or as a self employed person. Also, It was raining and trolley looked too large for her to be comfortable, all justification for miserable, but even so she held her head high - and good for her. The shot was more reportage than for art's sake (albeit I tilted to get the line of the tiles running from the lower left of the frame). I certainly did not want to humiliate the lady, or to demean her! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted November 9, 2015 Adam, I'm actually based in the north west of England, some 200 miles from London, otherwise I would have taken up the offer of a beer, subject to timing and availability etc. Cheers, and thanks for the clarification. Ps what do you think of the shot entitled 'Smokers', or am I better not asking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #11 Posted November 9, 2015 Adam, I'm sorry but you cannot speak for me and determine whether my comment is disingenuous or not. As a woman, I am probably more qualified then you, however, to have a valid opinion as to whether the title is sexist or not. It isn't. Ece Hi Ece - The "disingenuous" characterization of your comment was based on my interpretation of the photo. I apologize for offending you. Perhaps I should have just asked you what elements the photo has that make it a "well done" "street photo." As for my sexist remark, I was simply stating my opinion. The title could be interpreted to suggest that the only people who do "cart-pushing" for a living are women, and that this is not a man's job. That's how it struck me, and I am not particularly sensitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #12 Posted November 9, 2015 I actually felt for the lady in the street, however she was only doing what she had to do to earn a living, either as an employee or as a self employed person. Also, It was raining and trolley looked too large for her to be comfortable, all justification for miserable, but even so she held her head high - and good for her. The shot was more reportage than for art's sake (albeit I tilted to get the line of the tiles running from the lower left of the frame). I certainly did not want to humiliate the lady, or to demean her! I get you, Steve. And as I look more closely, I do notice some cool shapes in the upper left of the frame, which have good tonal range. But this really should only serve as icing on the cake with respect to an image with strong content. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #13 Posted November 9, 2015 Adam, I'm actually based in the north west of England, some 200 miles from London, otherwise I would have taken up the offer of a beer, subject to timing and availability etc. Cheers, and thanks for the clarification. Ps what do you think of the shot entitled 'Smokers', or am I better not asking That's too bad. But if you ever come to NYC, the beer is on me. I didn't find the "smoker's" photo interesting at all, either. Even if a photo doesn't strike me as interesting right away, I tend to ask myself if we could be looking back on this image in 5, 10 or even 20 years and draw some interesting elements from it. In this case, I just don't get any positive sense in this regard. I would suggest possibly going for a slightly softer contrast rendition in your photos. The heavy contrast could work in cases in which the photo has an edgy flavor, like your shot of the black and white couple with their (film?) camera with the Paul poster. That photo I actually thought had several interesting elements and would be worth keeping around and from time to time beating up to see if it should be pruned from your collection based on the newer "keepers" that you've added since. I liked the cultural diversity, their fashionable dress, the vintage-looking camera gear (which give them an artistic sense) and Paul's crazy expression in the background (which juxtaposes the jovial expression on the couple faces). I think the strong contrast enhances the cultural element as it makes the skin of the woman and man lighter and darker, respectively. The only thing that I think could be improved is the placement of the couple within the frame. You have your reasons why you would not want to make the change. I don't see this as something that will make or break your photo, and so it fine. Ultimately, I would give the shot of the could a solid B in the context of other world class street photography, and it makes this grade b/c I think that there could be some aging potential in the photo given the cultural elements. It is one of your stronger images that you have posted recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allamande Posted November 9, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 9, 2015 Not a Single interesting element in this phot to me. And the title is sexists, imho. "very nice" and "well done" comments are disingenuous. Sorry. Adam, I find nothing constructive about this original comment although you claim in your later reply that this is always what you try to do. In this case, I am failing to see what the constructive/helpful criticism is other than your expressed opinion about the content of the shot. This is all subjective and we are all entitled to our opinions, just like you are. However you have absolutely no standing to call my comment disingenuous based on your poor opinion of the shot. I am not offended at all, only very surprised. Your challenge is interesting as well (to back up what I said?), and assumes that you are the ultimate authority on what works and what doesn't, what's an interesting element and what isn't. I thought the timing of the shot was perfect because it shows this woman, most likely a delivery person, returning from her delivery to the store, and on her way to her next delivery (most likely). The trolley is too big for her and must be hard to maneuver, especially when loaded. I can even imagine an aching back, based on the expression on her face. The tiles look wet or slick, creating (in my mind, at least) an additional potential obstacle for her (at this point I notice she is wearing sneakers which eases my worry about her slipping). I am a big fan of signage in photographs, and if there's some serendipitous display, all the better. The OPs timing prominently captures "FO" above the woman's head and offers a puzzle (at least for me) to complete the word, first thing that comes to mind that references the subject (it's the cognitive scientist in me, I guess). I know the name of the chain of stores the woman is leaving, that's not the point. The point is my immediate reaction to the image. I said nothing about the technical aspects of the image because that's far less interesting to me and also, I don't feel I am qualified to comment on that aspect anyway. It looks like a competently executed BW. The POV displays her predicament well, bringing the outwardly and the inwardly elements together to tell a story, her story of that moment, the way this viewer sees it. All the best, Ece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benqui Posted November 9, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 9, 2015 Steve, I don't want to offend you personally but let me give you my thoughts concerning this photo. Of course I understand what you wanted to show with this street photo. But I expect from a good street photo a kind of thrilling action, a kind of , let me call it, "wow efffect". Something which grabs my attention. There are some very interesting aspects which I like for example the shadows of the people on the wet pavement, your perspective, her action, your perfect b/w and maybe the look in her face. But I would love to see more of her without the disturbing background. To me you are a bit too far away. This prevents that we see more of her face, her expression and maybe that we have a direct eye contact. The lady in the background directly behind her disturbs me too. But like always is much more easier to criticise although I know the in many cases you can not change or improve the background. I hope that you did not take it personally and I hope I did not offend you. Please take into account that I am not a native speaker, so I hope my points did not sound too harsh. best regards Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted November 9, 2015 Bl**dy 'ell, I may as well jack-in photography and take up fishing, flying kites of something. PS: For whats it worth I was on a 'Leica day' (I'm new to RF usage) and was instructed to capture 'action' on the street as part of a number of tasks given by the instructor, so that's what I did for this shot, with limited time to get the series completed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #17 Posted November 9, 2015 Adam, I find nothing constructive about this original comment although you claim in your later reply that this is always what you try to do. In this case, I am failing to see what the constructive/helpful criticism is other than your expressed opinion about the content of the shot. This is all subjective and we are all entitled to our opinions, just like you are. However you have absolutely no standing to call my comment disingenuous based on your poor opinion of the shot. I am not offended at all, only very surprised. Your challenge is interesting as well (to back up what I said?), and assumes that you are the ultimate authority on what works and what doesn't, what's an interesting element and what isn't. I thought the timing of the shot was perfect because it shows this woman, most likely a delivery person, returning from her delivery to the store, and on her way to her next delivery (most likely). The trolley is too big for her and must be hard to maneuver, especially when loaded. I can even imagine an aching back, based on the expression on her face. The tiles look wet or slick, creating (in my mind, at least) an additional potential obstacle for her (at this point I notice she is wearing sneakers which eases my worry about her slipping). I am a big fan of signage in photographs, and if there's some serendipitous display, all the better. The OPs timing prominently captures "FO" above the woman's head and offers a puzzle (at least for me) to complete the word, first thing that comes to mind that references the subject (it's the cognitive scientist in me, I guess). I know the name of the chain of stores the woman is leaving, that's not the point. The point is my immediate reaction to the image. I said nothing about the technical aspects of the image because that's far less interesting to me and also, I don't feel I am qualified to comment on that aspect anyway. It looks like a competently executed BW. The POV displays her predicament well, bringing the outwardly and the inwardly elements together to tell a story, her story of that moment, the way this viewer sees it. All the best, Ece Ece - Again, I am sorry for ruffling your feathers on this one. I am by no means an authority on anything. I guess this comes down to what standard we hold these photos to when making our comments. The way you interpret this photo can really be applied to just about any subject within any frame. We all can let our imaginations run and psycho-analyze anyone. This is particularly true in NYC where everyone basically lives their lives on the street. In the greatest effort of being objective, I cannot say that I share your intellectual curiosity or interest level with this lovely lady. To obtain a positive comment from me in this sub-forum, the photo should have some potential broad public interest; it should be a photo that individually or as part of a series, whether now or in the future, contains elements of interest that not just me but rather a critical mass of the public would all find interesting to an above-average extent relative to the billion other "street photos" out there being proliferated ona daily basis.. Based on this standard, I don't think this image does this and I don't understand how someone applying this standard can honestly say that it does. I think that we may just be applying different standards...which is something that I should have suggested as a possibility yesterday in my initial post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 9, 2015 Bl**dy 'ell, I may as well jack-in photography and take up fishing, flying kites of something. What do you expect, every snap of the shutter to be a winner?? That's not the case for anyone!! You have very good technique and have produced some photos with very promising elements of interest. Don't be the slightest discouraged if your keeper rate is in the single digit percentage of what you take home to view on your computer every day. Just continue to shoot what is interesting to you, try to get in close and grab the moment whenever you can muster the guts and keep sharing! And if my direct feedback is indeed discouraging you, just tell me and I will go back to the "silent" treatment (which I know would make Ece happy ) I still owe you a beer.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allamande Posted November 9, 2015 Share #19 Posted November 9, 2015 ............. Based on this standard, I don't think this image does this and I don't understand how someone applying this standard can honestly say that it does. I think that we may just be applying different standards...which is something that I should have suggested as a possibility yesterday in my initial post. What proportion of photos in this forum satisfy this personal standard of yours? Maybe 1%? To determine even that, we need to take a poll to go along with each image posted to arrive at a consensus. It's one thing to express opinion about a posted image, it's quite another to express opinion about others' opinions on that image. BTW, you didn't ruffle any feathers on my part. We are playing with semantics here. My point is: 1. your initial post had no helpful/constructive anything to offer, and 2. It is disingenuous to evaluate somebody else's remarks on this (or any other) photo that doesn't agree with your standards. You have to be in my head to know whether my remark is authentic or not. I also disagree with your characterization that my take on this shot can apply to any other shot. Not by a long shot. Cheers! Ece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 9, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 9, 2015 What proportion of photos in this forum satisfy this personal standard of yours? Maybe 1%? To determine even that, we need to take a poll to go along with each image posted to arrive at a consensus. BTW, you didn't ruffle any feathers on my part. We are playing with semantics here. My point is: 1. your initial post had no helpful/constructive anything to offer, and 2. It is disingenuous to evaluate somebody else's remarks on this (or any other) photo that doesn't agree with your standards. You have to be in my head to know whether my remark is authentic or not. I also disagree with your characterization that my take on this shot can apply to any other shot. Not by a long shot. Cheers! Ece 1. Noted and could have been more articulate, though don't think it would have changed the outcome. 2. My point was that I believe that my standard is the more universal standard that photos should be held. Just my opinion, though. And I make positive comments all the time, and even made some positive comments on one of Steve's other photos. Based on how photos are just thrown onto this sub-forum w/o (IMO) sufficient filtration, the rate of invoking a positive comment from me probably is less than 50%, but by no means in the single digits. I believe that commenting favorably on elements of interest and then commenting on the lack thereof is potentially very valuable, as people are not out shooting strangers for their own health. They are trying to create a collection of interesting photographs that have broad public appeal (whether the collection is kept only for themselves or whether they will try to show their work in some public setting down the road, it really doesn't matter). I am by no means any authority and this is after all an art and not a science. But I am no slouch and I think that I have demonstrated that over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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