dupiastko Posted October 21, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) After today's release I'm seriously worried about Leica. What a waste of resources... This clearly is going to flop, is it gonna somehow affect the new M? The release date? Availability? If you think I'm crazy, look at the Q, everyone is waiting for one, but instead they are making this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Hi dupiastko, Take a look here I'm waiting for the new M and I'm worried.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
indergaard Posted October 21, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2015 In any case, the SL flopping will just reinforce the need for Leica to make sure the next M will be awesome. Why? Because it's so far the only camera system they actually make a real profit on. Something needs to cover the R&D of all the other systems that fail to penetrate the market. I bet the next M will be noticeable more expensive due to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 21, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 21, 2015 Insofar as technology developed for one camera will generally be re-used in other cameras wherever it makes sense, the SL may affect the next M. But it's too early to say how specifically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 21, 2015 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2015 The great thing about all this is that I already have a couple of wonderful M cameras, one that shoots color, one that shoots black and white, and two that shoot whatever I load into them. So I'm really not all that concerned with features and price of any new M. I am in a pretty strong position to vote with my wallet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted October 21, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 21, 2015 After today's release I'm seriously worried about Leica. What a waste of resources... This clearly is going to flop, is it gonna somehow affect the new M? The release date? Availability? If you think I'm crazy, look at the Q, everyone is waiting for one, but instead they are making this... Wow... I'd seriously like to know what crystal ball you're using here... no SL cameras have even been delivered yet, and you think it's a flop? So, because it's not your cup of tea, there won't be anyone buying them? That seems a little self-centric to me. And by the way, I'm not waiting for a Q. or a T. I don't even know what they look like, and I really don't care... so not EVERYONE is waiting for one. I never cared for the Leicaflex series; particularly those based on the Minolta bodies... but that didn't stop scads of other folks from buying them. The SL will sell, and will probably sell as many copies as Leica cares to produce. There's LOTS of folks out there with disposable income who aren't hung up on the M-series like we are. Just take a deep breath and relax. The limited market for Leica is the M-series. The rest of their gear is selling well and the profits from those finance the Ms. This just expands their ability to penetrate another market share. There'll be a new and improved M in due course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0227 Posted October 21, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2015 I recently purchased my first Leica a few weeks ago (M-P 240) knowing something "new" was coming. I did my research and made sure I was getting the tool I needed..ok, wanted The initial discussion on this "new" product seemed to point toward a Q with removable AF lenses at longer focal lengths. I have alternative tools to cover this space so I was not overly concerned, The M platform puts the camera in my hands more than ever. I take it to work every day, the IQ is sensational. I've produced images in the first 10 actuations using my M with qualities that I've been looking to achieve for many, many years. So...stop waiting, start shooting...there will always be the next new _____ (fill in the blank). Get the body you can afford; invest in great glass and upgrade where/when you have the need. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted October 21, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I predict the SL will be a success. It's not excessively expensive, though it could have been cheaper, and it will attract any Leica glass owners who are not too keen on the M. I personally love the design and features and I'm very interested by the possibility of using FF Leica AF glass ( though only prime for me ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 21, 2015 Share #8 Posted October 21, 2015 I'm looking forward to whatever is the next iteration of the M believing it will now be an update of the M, not a hybrid with all sorts of gizmos and innovations that would make it not an M. If you want something that is not an M, you have the SL, which I predict will sell as many as Leica can make. It you want something sort of an M, get the Q, which already is selling more than Leica can make. If you want an M, get an M, which Leica will improve. Don't begrudge or slag or troll those who want something different, who Leica now -- in an expansionary mode, with capital and know-how -- wish to sell products to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted October 21, 2015 Share #9 Posted October 21, 2015 I predict the SL will be a success. It's not excessively expensive While a great camera. Compared to the competition (A7) it very much is excessively expense, I'm not sure that it offers enough to convince A7 users to switch to the SL, let alone 5D Mark III and D800 users. Leica has priced themselves out of the market, it should have been less than $5000 USD to be competitive. Leica has made the mirrorless body that everyone was hoping would eventually come from Canon and Nikon in 5 to 10 years. If it was priced at around $3000, it could be a real threat to Canon and Nikon's market share. But not at this price point. To summarise. Leica has the right product strategy, but the wrong price for this market. The concept is sure to take off when Canon/Nikon decide to clone it at half the price. Cameras like the Leica SL is what is going to kill the SLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 21, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 21, 2015 The limited market for Leica is the M-series. The rest of their gear is selling well and the profits from those finance the Ms. I assume you are being sarcastic? The M system has been (and IMO always will be) where the money is for Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 21, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 21, 2015 Back to topic. I'm not worried. I believe the SL will be a techonigical development platform like the R-system once was (not that the first digital Leica "solution" was for the R9). I believe that we will see a new M at next Photokina with more or less the same sensor as SL (and Q), Maestro II and a new EVF as a accessory. I don't think we will see a hybrid or a EVFonly M. The M-user are far top conservative for this. The "electronic rangefinder" patent we have seen might just as well be a way to keep any competitors out of the M-range or maybe a way for Leica to see if the market is ready for this (be seeing the reaction to the published patent). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 21, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 21, 2015 .... The rest of their gear is selling well and the profits from those finance the Ms.... Well... when I signed my cheque for my M240 I thought to myself "hey, guys in Solms... I hope you EARN something on this... ... would be STUPID should I suffer for this expense and you neither enjoy it a bit" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 21, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 21, 2015 After today's release I'm seriously worried about Leica. What a waste of resources... This clearly is going to flop. What makes you certain that it will flop, or are you just stylizing your post to be provocative? If counting to two is difficult then just answer the first part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2leica Posted October 21, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 21, 2015 After today's release I'm seriously worried about Leica. What a waste of resources... This clearly is going to flop, is it gonna somehow affect the new M? The release date? Availability? If you think I'm crazy, look at the Q, everyone is waiting for one, but instead they are making this... Not the best first post... How many people stuck waiting for a Q will peel off and buy an SL instead? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dupiastko Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted October 21, 2015 How can you have any doubts? Who is it aiming at? How is it unique? I can only see one unique feature - the EVF. Everything else - poor specs, ugly, giant size, only one giant lens available - is it gonna take Leica engineers ONE more year to design an R adaptor? Why isn't it ready now? Etc, etc. But main question remains - who is gonna buy this? In order to sell it, they need customers, it's really simple... Who's gonna pay 12 Grand for this? What worries me is that it's supposed to ship soon. That means they really put some serious resources into this, not only R&D, but manufacturing as well. Instead of making more Qs and instead making a great new M... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2leica Posted October 21, 2015 Share #16 Posted October 21, 2015 Doubts? When the S was introduced very similar comments were made - it's too big, it's way too expensive, who is going to buy it, the lens line is too small, etc. And yet, it sold and still sells today. Sure, not the same volume as the M line, but apparently enough such that Leica upgraded it. Who's going to pay 12 grand? The same person who would pay 16 grand for an S. Or the same person who might have paid 8 grand for a Q. The SL is a bridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 21, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 21, 2015 Put dupiasko in your ignore list and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 21, 2015 Share #18 Posted October 21, 2015 Btw, SL appreciation grows with being able to actually handle and take photographs with it. No, I couldn’t afford the SL system, but I like it – the SL speaks to me in a way no Sony Alpha 7 does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted October 21, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 21, 2015 I assume you are being sarcastic? The M system has been (and IMO always will be) where the money is for Leica. No, wattsy, no sarcasm intended. Leica stopped producing the M4 in 1975 because of poor sales; and those M4 sales that they DID make were cutting into the already less-than-stellar sales numbers of the 1971-introduced-M5, In 1977, management at Leitz Canada recognized the solution and built a few M4s out of left over parts, and then had to fight with Wetzler to build the M4-2; which, as it turned out, was the camera that saved the company's bacon after they discontinued the M5. The R-series carried the company during the early '70s, but was falling out of favor with the public by the late '70s. Leitz pioneered auto-focus in the '70s, and then Wetzlar came through again and decided there was no market for it and sold it to Minolta who used it first in 1985. Leica almost went under again in the '90s after the advent of digital when they didn't have any digital offerings. The M8 was, once again, the camera that saved Leica and brought them into the digital age. There is no doubt that the M is the company's mainstay camera, and M film body sales are probably mostly gravy after forty years of production; but I suspect that the balance sheets on the digital M series has been less than stellar. The prospect of replacing the sensors in most of the M9s has to be a hit on the profits as well. The M market is a strong, but a narrow segment of the market... and I'm pretty sure that if we could get into the books at Leica, we'd find that the real money in the "M" system isn't in the bodies, but they're making a KILLING on the lenses sold for the M mount. THAT is the profit center for the M system, and they need to continue to introduce M bodies at regular intervals to continue getting the revenue stream from the lens line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2015 Share #20 Posted October 21, 2015 In any case, the SL flopping will just reinforce the need for Leica to make sure the next M will be awesome. Why? Because it's so far the only camera system they actually make a real profit on. Something needs to cover the R&D of all the other systems that fail to penetrate the market. I bet the next M will be noticeable more expensive due to this. Stated concisely, unequivocally and with not a shade of doubt ... or any evidence at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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