jto555 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I was photographing a PR shoot today and out of 185 frames on one body I got 68 black frames from the start of the shoot! Firmware: 2.0.2.5 Battery at 30% No EVF Sandisk Card that was formatted with the SDformatter a week ago. Thankfully I am covered in that I was shooting wide and close with both my cameras, so I have most of the shots on the other camera. However, this has really shaken me as to the reliability of Leica. I know other people have had the same issue, so has anybody gotten to the bottom of what is going on? Unfortunately, I feel a holiday to Leica is warranted... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Hi jto555, Take a look here Black Frames. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
douglas fry Posted October 19, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 19, 2015 Are you saying the battery was at 30% after shooting 185 frames? That sounds like a battery problem, mine would be at about 90% Secondly I would try changing the SD card, or at least cleaning the contacts with electrical contact cleaner (Maplins sell it) If the fault can't be reproduced with a full battery and another card, then I would buy new cards and a battery.....I feel your pain however and feel it should go to Wetzlar but if you are a Pro, then you will get it back under a week more than likely BTW I have better performance than SanDisk with the new Samsung Pro cards, in fact if you take up a subscription with LFI magazine they will send a 64G Samsung Pro free of charge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted October 19, 2015 Thanks Douglas. The battery ALSO has an issue, in that it is less than two years old and while it has has been rotated with other batteries, it is now showing "Check Battery Age" in red on the back screen. As for battery usage, I started and finished the shoot with the battery showing about 30%. I have been talking to a very helpful chap at Leica Germany and the camera, battery and SD card with the images still on it will be going back to Germany. While it would be nice if the issue was the battery or card and not the camera, I cannot take a chance on a shoot. By the way, in two years for shooting with Leica this is the first time this has happened. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas fry Posted October 19, 2015 Share #4 Posted October 19, 2015 Sounds like a dodgy battery, just not suppling enough juice to the camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 19, 2015 Also sounds like dodgy firmware - not informing you that the file failed to be saved or the picture was all black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0227 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 19, 2015 Also sounds like dodgy firmware - not informing you that the file failed to be saved or the picture was all black. Is this actually a firmware feature ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted October 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is this actually a firmware feature ? Yes, it is a feature. If the picture is not up to Leica standards, then the camera wont save it. Must take better photos!!! I had another chat with Leica and the (sick) battery could be the issue as mentioned by Douglas. Tomorrow I am going to use the camera on a personal shoot with a different battery and SD card, to see if it will happen again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 19, 2015 Share #8 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) You are experienced so I assume an assistant did not remove the lens cap after this happened? Good reason to use the EVF. I also would never start a session with a 30% battery or if it got down to that level would change it out the instant I saw that level of battery charge. Sometimes my M240 cameras begin to act funny when the battery level gets down to that level of charge. Edited October 19, 2015 by algrove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted October 19, 2015 No, there was no lens cap on the lens. In fact, the camera started to work on the 69th image without any input from me. So I went from shooting black frames to a fully functioning camera, seamlessly. As for starting a shoot on a 30% full battery, that should have no effect on the camera. It should give a few hours of shooting before depletion. I have, on many an occasion, shot with the battery down to just a few percent with no ill effects. Sometimes needs must. Anyway, always keep a spare battery on your person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 19, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 19, 2015 I just happen to think that if a lens is not quite seated well enough, there could be a chance that the M will shoot blanks. I had this happen to me once lately. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted October 19, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 19, 2015 Don't you ever check images while shooting, to ensure you got the shot you wanted? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 19, 2015 Don't you ever check images while shooting, to ensure you got the shot you wanted? I check virtually every shot, not pixel peeping, but check that I have a reasonable image, so I cannot imagine this happening to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 19, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 19, 2015 Don't you ever check images while shooting, to ensure you got the shot you wanted? Of course and that's why this thread seems so foreign to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted October 19, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Are you using Lightroom CC? I only ask because when I uploaded some pictures a day or two ago for the first time in two weeks, I had a range of frames that look black... All was fine in camera before the import, so I was very surprised... But I then noticed that when I used Photos for some work related shots, all was well. On further investigation I noticed that Lightroom was importing and processing at -5EVF... When I corrected them to 0EVF all was well again. Could it be that your Lightroom was adding its own import processing at -5EVF as well? Possibly a bug in the latest release? It maybe nothing, but worth a look... Edited October 19, 2015 by Bill Livingston 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carta Posted October 20, 2015 Share #15 Posted October 20, 2015 I posted a thread on this earlier called Pitch-Black photos, I believe. I am on mobile and can't grt the link, but please do take a look. The problem was fixed by a Leica service center clean-up, but acual cause is unknown. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted October 20, 2015 Don't you ever check images while shooting, to ensure you got the shot you wanted? I was shooting two bodies and the light was constant, so after checking the histogram on one camera to make sure that my exposure was good, there was no reason to keep checking the screen. Also, on this shoot there was no time to keep checking the screen, because the shoot evolved a child playing games with a child minder. So if was a fast moving subject and looking at the screen would mean that I could miss the best shot. If you are doing shots for yourself you have the luxury of been able to check the screen after each exposure. Not always on a professional shoot. However, this afternoon, while I check the camera I will have that luxury as I will have the time to chimp. Reminds me of shooting Hasselblad in the film days. The leaf shutter lenses had a 50cent spring in the shutter assembly and if that went faulty, the camera system seem to be working but you got no images as the shutter would not fire as you took the photograph. But it would make all the noises as if it was working. Go on, ask me how I know... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted October 20, 2015 Are you using Lightroom CC? I only ask because when I uploaded some pictures a day or two ago for the first time in two weeks, I had a range of frames that look black... All was fine in camera before the import, so I was very surprised... But I then noticed that when I used Photos for some work related shots, all was well. On further investigation I noticed that Lightroom was importing and processing at -5EVF... When I corrected them to 0EVF all was well again. Could it be that your Lightroom was adding its own import processing at -5EVF as well? Possibly a bug in the latest release? It maybe nothing, but worth a look... Thanks Bill, pulling the exposure up was one of the things I tried. There was no image there, every pixel was black. I sent the very last 'black frame' shot and first of the correct frames to Leica for them to analyse, and they now think it could be a shutter fault. The camera had a very heavy fall last month and was repaired by Leica (at a considerable cost to my insurance company), so maybe they should have tested/replaced the shutter at the same time? At this stage I have to say, it might not be the camera. It could be a card fault or as was pointed out earlier by another poster, it could be a battery that is going faulty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted October 20, 2015 Share #18 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Hi, I thought it was a bit of a shot in the dark... Excuse the pun! Anyway, Carta mentioned he had a similar issue, but couldn't link back to it as he was on his mobile. I think this is the link he wanted to attach: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238422-pitch-black-photos/ Reading through his original thread, unfortunately, it seems it is a return for service... Edited October 20, 2015 by Bill Livingston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted October 20, 2015 Thanks all for the advice. I am just back from my shoot and I was able to make the black frames happen again. It is not the card, I believe it is as Douglas said, a battery issue. With the sick battery in the camera and shooting quickly I don't think the battery had enough power to run the camera properly. So a few images in the buffer were not recorded. Slow shooting and not filling the buffer seems to work and the images are recorded. With a good fresh battery I could not force the black frames. My next test is to put the bad battery into my 2nd body and try with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted October 20, 2015 Share #20 Posted October 20, 2015 I just happen to think that if a lens is not quite seated well enough, there could be a chance that the M will shoot blanks. I had this happen to me once lately. This is an interesting thought. I have had intermittent black frames, one every few hundred exposures or so, and I also happen to have one lens that is kinda bitchy about being seated properly. I'm going to have to thint about this one a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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