colonel Posted October 16, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 16, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) So I have been an admirer for many years of the S system I have never bought it simply due to the money involved, and for some things it would be too heavy for me but I would still have alternative cameras Now they have been on the market for sometime I have been offered an S (006) and lens for what I believe is significantly below the market value. I am sorely and stupidly tempted as this is one of those opportunities that doesn't come along very often. Its still very expensive and of course I don't really need it, as for everything photographic I buy So I have some really dumb newbie questions to ask you S folk: 1. Are S's reliable ? This will be out of guarantee and I couldn't deal with a £500 repair bill .... 2. Anything special to check immediately before I hand over the money (apart from obviously the focus and basic functioning) 3. Is the IQ noticeably different for all categories of shots ?, from say an M and the best Leica/Zeiss lenses, or do only a certain category really benefit ? Int erms of IQ I guess I am talking about detail, "pop" (can't define it) and colours As a small background I am an amateur and am thinking of the S more in terms of landscapes, buildings and portraits. Some examples of what I like to shoot: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Manolo Laguillo Posted October 16, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 16, 2015 As an amateur, your relation with photography and all the gear it involves has 100% to do with sheer pleasure. Period. In this sense, the Leica S will give you tons of pleasure. That's an undisputed fact. Do you remember how it was looking through the Olympus OM-1 viewfinder? We only live once... Go ahead, I would say. PS What lens comes with that S006? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted October 16, 2015 As an amateur, your relation with photography and all the gear it involves has 100% to do with sheer pleasure. Period. In this sense, the Leica S will give you tons of pleasure. That's an undisputed fact. Do you remember how it was looking through the Olympus OM-1 viewfinder? We only live once... Go ahead, I would say. PS What lens comes with that S006? unusually a 120-apo I think that, the 70mm and the 30mm would probably be my horizon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 16, 2015 Share #4 Posted October 16, 2015 As an amateur, your relation with photography and all the gear it involves has 100% to do with sheer pleasure. Period. In this sense, the Leica S will give you tons of pleasure. That's an undisputed fact. Do you remember how it was looking through the Olympus OM-1 viewfinder? We only live once... Go ahead, I would say. PS What lens comes with that S006? Great advice, if not answers to your questions. "Amateur" means, literally, that you do it for the love of it (professionals will just do anything for money ). So quantifying a decision on such an acquisition is just not possible. As a M240 owner, this is the same decision I also fantasise about - to be revisited, yet again, after I see what the SL looks like. PS I didn't have an OM-1, but the equivalent Pentax MX was the first camera I bought for myself and I remember the jewel-like view vividly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted October 16, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 16, 2015 Yes, for your style of photography (tripod-based nightscapes, architecture, portraits in good light), you will benefit from image quality improvements with the S006, compared to, for example, M240 with M glass or Nikon with Sigma Art/Zeiss Otus glass. Not in just some images but in all images. Any uses that require higher ISO will be better served by these other cameras (among many others). One thing to consider - the S lenses are "perfect" - a different rendering than many of the M lenses, especially older lenses, that have a "character". The M240 with the latest lenses (especially the 50 APO, 70 APO) is similar in rendering to the S system - very detailed, high contrast, quick transition from focused to unfocused areas. This is the latest Leica "aesthetics ideal" but many people like the gentler rendering of the Mandler era M lenses, like the 75 Lux - you won't find this in the S system. For portraits shot with the S lenses, be prepared to do a lot of retouching - every pore and skin imperfection is clearly visible. Make sure your PC is up to speed - the files are big. A MacBook Pro 15" retina with 8GB RAM is a minimum. As for reliability - my S2 had to go to Solms twice, once for sensor replacement (vertical running red stripes across image) and the second time for firmware update that could not be done by the user (there were several corrupted files). I had the AF motor fail in an almost new 70 CS. In each of the above cases, the camera/lens was back with my dealer within 3 weeks. There is currently a popular thread on this same forum describing users' problems with AF motor failures on S lenses - you may want to read through this before you make any decision. The lenses can still be used in MF mode when the AF motor fails (so not the end of the world when this happens in the course of a once-in-a-lifetime, for instance) but an annoying problem nevertheless, which seems to be endemic with recently produced S lenses, it seems. I would also be very careful about any deal that appears "significantly below market value". Another user recently reported a suspiciously cheap S006 being offered on eBay and in the end was relieved that he had not proceeded with the deal, as the seller was apparently selling on somebody else's behalf and did not even know much about the camera he was selling. Unlike with the M system where I have bought and sold lenses many times over eBay, for anything second hand S, I'd only buy from my dealer where I can rely on a 6-month warranty and support/trust based on years of a relationship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailronin Posted October 16, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 16, 2015 I am an amateur as well, just shoot for the joy of making photographs. I traded in my trusty Hasselblad 501cm and CFV-50 back for the S (006). That is a truly great combination (with six lenses from 40mm to 350mm) and the CFV-50 produces wonderful files. My main concern was portability and weather sealing so I took the plunge and bought the S. My first look at the S files blew me away, the quality was better than the Hasselblad files due to the wonderful S 70mm Summarit. While the old Zeiss glass is outstanding, the Leica glass is designed for the digital age and this specific sensor...it took my breath away. I still love my M9 and shoot it a lot but the there is no comparison between the M9 and S files when you begin to print A3+ or larger. If you can get an S, go for it! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 16, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 16, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is currently a popular thread on this same forum describing users' problems with AF motor failures on S lenses - you may want to read through this before you make any decision. There is a post in that thread today indicating that Leica will replace any faulty AF motors of whatever age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted October 16, 2015 There is a post in that thread today indicating that Leica will replace any faulty AF motors of whatever age. Thats good to know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 16, 2015 Share #9 Posted October 16, 2015 In case you don't know, Red Dot (and presumably other authorised dealers) are selling the S-E plus 70/F2.5 for £7,995 inc. VAT. That is of course brand new with warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted October 16, 2015 In case you don't know, Red Dot (and presumably other authorised dealers) are selling the S-E plus 70/F2.5 for £7,995 inc. VAT. That is of course brand new with warranty. Yes, and there is a used S set in guarantee with another registered supplier for £1000 less. All a bit too tempting. I wish it had stayed at £12k then I would even consider it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted October 16, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 16, 2015 Judging by the type of photography you do, the S will be very fulfilling. Just make sure you know the person you are dealing with and beware of the old Yankee adage: "If it is too good to be true it is..." or the Roman saying: caveat emptor.... Albert :rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkgmatt Posted October 17, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 17, 2015 I agree with albireo_double. It will be a marked improvement of IQ for every single shot, and your type of photography lends itself well to shooting with an S. I've had no reliability issues in the year or so I've had the system, other than the AF failure on one lens discussed elsewhere, which was promptly repaired. Immediately after I bought it I had extreme buyer's remorse and wanted to sell it right away. I'm glad I didn't. The S takes shots I can't get from any other camera I have, including the M with the best lenses. Black and white conversion is also amazing, some say resulting in better shots than from an MM. The only downside for me, other than price, is the system's weight and bulk. This will not become your every day camera, so don't sell your other gear! As to price, I'm uncertain how much the 006 will drop after the 007 becomes more widely available. I've certainly accepted that I will take a large hit on mine when I upgrade to the 007. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 17, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 17, 2015 Colonel, like you I only photograph for my own pleasure. I'm starting to wonder whether an S would be a better option than an SL. I already have more than enough Leica M cameras (digital and film) and lenses, and the price for entry into the S system with a standard lens has plummeted. . No doubt the IQ is better. The shooting style and compactness of an SLR-style MF camera suits me more than that of Hasselblad or Phase One. The waterproofing also interests me as I could take the camera where others fear to tread. The M also attracted me for it's compactness and light-weight but even Neil (a self proclaimed he-man) is already complaining about the weight of the S after only a month or so. However, other than what I see on my computer screen I'm not sure whether the benefits of the S are worth it over the M for printing up to 21 to 24 inches which is my usual print size. If you are photographing for a screen or only to prints of this size it may well not be worth it. Maybe I'm just trying to let the GAS out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 17, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 17, 2015 Wait for the SL. Then, wait for secondhand S(007) cameras to become available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 17, 2015 Share #15 Posted October 17, 2015 Wait for the SL. Then, wait for secondhand S(007) cameras to become available. Agreed, exactly my thoughts. I have no intentions on buying anything until the SL, and probably M, are released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted October 17, 2015 Share #16 Posted October 17, 2015 Harold, I come from the world of SLR (R8, R4S and SL)it's good but too heavy.Since I have M cameras, what compactness, what happiness with age I like street photo, photograph people and the M's fine for me ... but if you love the S system , go on ! Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JV- Posted October 17, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 17, 2015 Colonel, S (006) is great for that type of photography. IQ is in its own class and camera itself is very liable. Lenses have now af motor problems, those are fixed by Leica for free but for that it will be weeks or maybe a month in its way. S (006) is now "as cheap as it gets" and definitely worth of it. Things to remember is that its ISO is from the film age, 100 and 200 are great, 400 is good and 800 to 1600 are not so good. So if your regular shooting goes above ISO 400, you should think S (007) or to go to some else system. I'm definitely amateur but i wanted to have the S and i had to make some tough decisions in the past to have it. Still i haven't regret it once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 17, 2015 Share #18 Posted October 17, 2015 Colonel, S (006) is great for that type of photography. IQ is in its own class How do you think it compares to Phase One or Hasselblad (or for that matter the MF Pentax)? and camera itself is very (re)liable. Lenses have now af motor problems, those are fixed by Leica for free but for that it will be weeks or maybe a month in its way. I would consider this a big issue for the longevity of such an expensive system. Are the replacement motors upgraded units or do they just replace them with the same one that may just fail again. How much of a problem is this? S (006) is now "as cheap as it gets" Surely the price will continue to fall, and perhaps fairly quickly fairly soon. At least for the camera body. S (006) is now "as cheap as it gets" and definitely worth of it. Things to remember is that its ISO is from the film age, 100 and 200 are great, 400 is good and 800 to 1600 are not so good. So if your regular shooting goes above ISO 400, you should think S (007) or to go to some else system. I use a tripod for landscape work to keep the ISO as low as possible to maximise IQ. However, using handheld as an overgrown DSLR with slower lenses it could be an issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 17, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 17, 2015 I'm also interested in the question of IQ. To those with the S (of any Typ). Compared to the M240: - do you notice the better IQ at normal screen size (up to 4k)? - does it make a difference in printing up to A3? Or to A2? Sadly, these are the questions my financial controller (who lives with me) is likely to ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 17, 2015 Share #20 Posted October 17, 2015 I'm also interested in the question of IQ. To those with the S (of any Typ). Compared to the M240: - do you notice the better IQ at normal screen size (up to 4k)? - does it make a difference in printing up to A3? Or to A2? Sadly, these are the questions my financial controller (who lives with me) is likely to ask. Good questions, and what I was getting at above for small to medium-sized prints. You need to replace your financial controller with a financial advisor ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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