Getting the impression, not ready for prime time

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Not only possible it is being done everyday. I only use the M8 for all my work and it varies on what i am doing daily. Just need to know it's limitations and work within them but for months now i have not run into a Oh I need a DSLR for this work.

[woodyspedden]

Joe, just because a fellow sells his 5D/1Ds/D2X kit and states to a public forum that his reason for doing so was that the M8 image quality is "superior", or lighter in weight than the DSLR kit, doesn't preclude the real possibility that his motives were in reality financial. In the "film days" very very few people, at least since the late 1960s, shot the M Leica as their only kit. The same ergonomic and technical limitations that existed then vs an SLR, still exist today in the M8.

 

I think we are getting a little off track here. If people are not using their older gear because the M8 does the jobs for them then it is only sensible to sell that gear to offset what was spent on the M8. What I am hearing here is that they find little to no need for their older SLR's. Personally I love my M8 and am selling my M6's and my old Nikon DSLR and lenses. However I will keep my DMR, 5D and all the R glass for use both as backup and (primarily) for telephoto and macro work. In my opinion, even with the Visoflex. rangefinders just don't cut it for telephoto and macro so if you have need for those features you need to have your DSLR.

 

Woody

[AlanG]

... and it is just SO nice to be able to use cameras that feel like real cameras and not plastic toys.

 

Maybe we should stop demeaning "plastic" and realize we are often talking about precision materials, maybe advanced composites. My ski bindings used to be made of magnesium and are now plastic. I never had a problem with them. And I don't think anyone has demonstrated that Canon and Nikon do not make reliable professsional products.

 

Metal doesn't always seem so great considering how the casing on one M8 totally failed. This potentially could have been a very serious situation if it resulted in the camera falling and getting wrecked or injuring someone. (I often work on rooftops and own many tripods.)

 

I think modern camera manufacturers use the materials that are best suited for the overall design without consideration of tradition. Years ago, I sold my Hassleblads and bought a Rollei 6006 system. The Rollei camera has a metal body covered with plastic. The backs are pretty much all plastic. I didn't miss the shiny chome finish of the Hassys one bit. I once dropped a Rollei back about 4 feet onto concrete. It barely had a scratch. I don't think a Hassy back would have fared as well.

 

I read this from Tummydoc, "Bottom-line is if you want a digital Leica M right now, you buy an M8 and pray. My first 2 died in succession, my 3rd has been working well about 3 months. I will not be putting it on a tripod though." Not being religious, I'll wait a year or two and see how it shakes out.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I'm on a tripod all the time with no issues. Not sure one camera issue is really something that we should worry in mass. Yet

[wilfredo]

After a lot of hesitation I decided to sell my M7. Why? I put a roll of film in it, and never shot it, it sat idle, the M8 has completely taken over. I got close to $2400.00 for it on E-bay, so I'm satisfied with that. On my recent trip to the Middle East the M8 performed with no problems, I took my Canon 5D as a back-up, but I could have done the whole trip without it. I'm glad I did take the 5D however, since there were times when speed and a zoom were the best approach. I'm still away, but will hopefully start posting some pictures from Palestine/Israel next week.

 

Cheers,

Wilfredo

Benitez-Rivera Photography

[Joe Mondello]

Joe, just because a fellow sells his 5D/1Ds/D2X kit and states to a public forum that his reason for doing so was that the M8 image quality is "superior", or lighter in weight than the DSLR kit, doesn't preclude the real possibility that his motives were in reality financial. In the "film days" very very few people, at least since the late 1960s, shot the M Leica as their only kit. The same ergonomic and technical limitations that existed then vs an SLR, still exist today in the M8.

 

Point taken. And I agree. There are things I still want my D200 and lenses for, but aside from those (generally macro and telephoto), I'd *rather* shoot with the M8.

 

Given that there are upwards of 10K units out there (based solely on anecdotal evidence of serial numbers) the number of folks who have suffered SDS or metal failure are few.

 

I guess my point is don't be put off by the bad experiences of a few when there are good experiences of many.

 

When he Nikon D200 came out last year I got an early early model, but only twice in 30K frames did I ever experience the dreaded "banding" issue. Some D200 owners had bum batteries, mine have been fine, etc., etc.

 

Have I ever had bad cameras? Heck yes! Had to return my 1st Oly E-10 (2nd one was perfect) and had to return my 1st M8 (2nd one is fine)

 

Bottom line (for me at least) the M8 is a very fine camera and well worthy of any pro's or serious amateur's consideration.

[andalus]

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I'm like you. The M Leicas one put film in and took pictures. The pictures almost always looked great. Film of course is also very forgiving.

 

I do own an M8 but I'm not entirely sold on it. It's a beautiful piece of machinery, but it's been a pain in the a@@ to say the least. A bit of a rich man's folly vs a totally reliable tool. And it may just be a matter of what one is used to. The M7 really couldn't get much better imo, and in many ways the M8 is a step back in manufacturing quality and some poor decisions on Leicas's part. It's a step forward only in that it's digital, and more and more that is the neccessity of modern photography. So, if you don't need digital capability with the M system I say invest elsewhere. Otherwise it's a good bet and I really doubt an M9 is anywhere around the corner. The files are quite good and really do blow the competition away. It's just getting there that's been a pain.

 

I have a MP and the 28 and 70 Cron and I travel often. Maybe I'm nuts not getting excited about digital, but I enjoy having my neatly filed slides, any of which I can scan if I like. Also, my best slides I simply have printed as Cibachromes at a professional shop nearby. I could not be happier with this arrangement. I am NOT dependent on batteries, software, ets, unless I want to modify a scanned slide. I am afraid I'd use the M8 like a point and shoot digital, taking a lot of shots I'd delete and few I would keep. Using film in the MP makes me very discriminating about what I shoot. Makes me think about what I am doing. Perhaps someday I'll go digital, but I don't think one can do any better if one has taken a very nice Velvia or Provia slide and has a brilliant 11x14 Cibachrome printed from it. Am I nuts?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yes . LOL

 

Seriously who ever said or factually said that if you shoot digital you don't concentrate and/or pay attention. Yes you can get into the P&S mode also and some do but I shoot no more than i did with film and really mostly a lot less than shooting chrome . I don' t have to bracket like crazy as i did with film and no polariods. same is true with a canon 1dMKII that can do 5 frames a second , I hardly ever used it like that but some folks are machine guns with it. Just becuase you shoot digital does not mean you will all of a sudden get sloppy either, yes more cost effective to do that but really this is up to the shooter and his way of working. I shoot digital for clients and having instant feedback is very important and also instant files. Really the trick to digital is use it as you would in any situation but take advantage of the technology it offers. Now if you want to argue about computer time and all that well you win the arm wrestle there no question but i do have more control as to what i want and to what you may have to deliver also. But digital is absolutely no excuse for being a lazy arsh either and need to work it as you did with film or anything else that you want good results .Like the saying garbage in garbage out, not much will save yourself if you don't put the energy in to begin with. Now yes digital offers you more to shoot more due to costs of processing film BUT the more digital you shoot the more computer time you spend editing so there is a cost and a work trade off. so i am very selective when shooting digital because that is less time for me with face time on the computer so being more deliberate has it's advantages when shooting

[robertwright]

I have a MP and the 28 and 70 Cron and I travel often. Maybe I'm nuts not getting excited about digital, but I enjoy having my neatly filed slides, any of which I can scan if I like. Also, my best slides I simply have printed as Cibachromes at a professional shop nearby. I could not be happier with this arrangement. I am NOT dependent on batteries, software, ets, unless I want to modify a scanned slide. I am afraid I'd use the M8 like a point and shoot digital, taking a lot of shots I'd delete and few I would keep. Using film in the MP makes me very discriminating about what I shoot. Makes me think about what I am doing. Perhaps someday I'll go digital, but I don't think one can do any better if one has taken a very nice Velvia or Provia slide and has a brilliant 11x14 Cibachrome printed from it. Am I nuts?

 

Guy is right, but also, it sounds like you have a "workflow" that works for you, and this is really the basis of it, whatever makes you feel good about making work, editing, storing, and displaying, however that works for you, that is very important. It should be invisible to some degree. digital is it's own set of workflow issues, and it requires different tools and techniques to solve. Film is a very good workflow in some ways, and I have no doubt about it's archival issues, or how to keep my images safe. With digital, there is some doubt about formats, media, longevity, etc. Just how will all the gigabytes pass into the future?

 

that being said, if the results from the local lab are pleasing you, you're set. But if you wanted additional control over printing, moving to a digital workflow would have enormous benefits. No one is nuts to stick with film if they want.

[jackal]

i had a D200 and some of the best Nikon glass you can get, 28mm F1.4, 85mm F1.4 etc..

 

M8 blows it away, nikon is horribly over-sharp and digital looking

 

IR isn't an issue for me; I dont shoot colour unless colour is a real feature of the shot and when it is, it rarely involves people in black jackets and suits. So i dont have to use any filters and i couldnt give a rats what data is in the EXIF.

 

Its a beautiful thing, i've owned lots of nice things in my time... high performance cars was always my biggest wekaness. But the M8 is up there with one of the fondest purchases ever, you get so attached to it. I take mine to work everyday now. Kind of half hoping it gets a bit beaten up and roughh and ready round teh corners so i can feel even more at ease carrying it aroudn with me everywhere.

[ChrisC]

..... a very nice Velvia or Provia slide..... a brilliant 11x14 Cibachrome...... Am I nuts?

 

That's a difficult judgement call. I always thought Velvia was dreadful stuff, and Cibachromes the ghastliest of print processes.

 

Tell me: how long have you questioned your sanity?

 

....................Chris

[andalus]

That's a difficult judgement call. I always thought Velvia was dreadful stuff, and Cibachromes the ghastliest of print processes.

 

Tell me: how long have you questioned your sanity?

 

....................Chris

 

Since all thje brouhaha re the M8. That perhaps I am missing something.

But really, Velvia can be quite good for landscapes. I just liked the saturated colors. My Cibachromes urn out beutifully. Maybe they require a pro lab? I have one nearby. The darn things are good to last for dewcades, too, I am told.

There is something very pleasant about using an all mechanical camera like the MP and NEVER having to worry about anything but getting the shot I want. Slides well stored seem better that CD's or DVD's. But I am a total rube as far as digital cameras go. I admit it. I haven't been swayed probably because I've not used one.