Manicouagan1 Posted August 23, 2015 Share #1 Posted August 23, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does the M(246) have a histogram display built from the raw/DNG data. The M9 Monochrom has this feature. I find the raw/DNG histogram useful on the older Monochrom. If the new Monochrom has a raw/DNG histogram does it have zone sytem markings? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Manicouagan1, Take a look here Raw/DNG histogram with zone system markings. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Joakim Posted August 24, 2015 Share #2 Posted August 24, 2015 Histogram is from JPEG and there are no zone system markings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted August 24, 2015 Share #3 Posted August 24, 2015 Histogram is from JPEG and there are no zone system markings. Really? I wonder why Leica didn't include the Raw histogram in the M246. I find it helpful with the MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 24, 2015 Share #4 Posted August 24, 2015 Don't know about zone markings, but the literature I've seen, e.g., B&H, indicates RAW histogram. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 24, 2015 Share #5 Posted August 24, 2015 I'm pretty sure it is only JPEG but I would gladly be proven wrong I have not seen any reviewers mentioning this or anything in the on-line documentation from Leica. I made a quick test earlier today where I changed Contrast and Sharpening in the camera and got a different histogram when switching from low/off to standard to high for both settings. This tells me that it is a JPEG based histogram. BTW, in my simple test the Standard setting gave the histogram that best matched the DNG histogram when I viewed the files in Lightroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 24, 2015 Share #6 Posted August 24, 2015 I made a quick test earlier today where I changed Contrast and Sharpening in the camera and got a different histogram when switching from low/off to standard to high for both settings. This tells me that it is a JPEG based histogram. Well, if you're making those changes, you're shooting JPEG, not RAW. The whole purpose is to shoot with a totally RAW workflow. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted August 25, 2015 Share #7 Posted August 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is easy to figure out: set the camera to DNG only (which imho is what anybody who owns a Monochrom should be shooting anyway), does the histogram appear, then change after a few seconds when the image is rendered? If so, it is a Raw histogram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest )-( Posted August 25, 2015 Share #8 Posted August 25, 2015 Whilst we're on the topic (MM1 histogram) - why does the MM1 have this great full width histogram overlay with flashing clipping options - but the M9 only the impossible-to-really-read picture/histogram dual window option? I fairly certain I'm on latest firmware with both (v1.202 for M9), is it too much to wish for a full width M9 histogram like the MM1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted August 25, 2015 Share #9 Posted August 25, 2015 I assume that the M9 histogram is a lot more complex since it shows three channels as opposed to just the one luminance channel as in the MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted August 25, 2015 Share #10 Posted August 25, 2015 Whilst we're on the topic (MM1 histogram) - why does the MM1 have this great full width histogram overlay with flashing clipping options - but the M9 only the impossible-to-really-read picture/histogram dual window option? I fairly certain I'm on latest firmware with both (v1.202 for M9), is it too much to wish for a full width M9 histogram like the MM1? Because it doesn't have to deal with color, the MM1 has 64K of extra RAM to make pretty and useful histograms. Dante Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 25, 2015 Share #11 Posted August 25, 2015 Well, if you're making those changes, you're shooting JPEG, not RAW. The whole purpose is to shoot with a totally RAW workflow. Jeff No you don't have to do that, sharpness and contrast can be changed even if you shoot DNG only and since changing them did affect the histogram on the LCD it tells me it is based on the JPEG. I did shoot DNG+JPEG so that I could confirm what I saw on the LCD later on my computer. I base my comments on what I see on my M 246 and many years experience of working with a raw workflow, just saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 25, 2015 Share #12 Posted August 25, 2015 It is easy to figure out: set the camera to DNG only (which imho is what anybody who owns a Monochrom should be shooting anyway), does the histogram appear, then change after a few seconds when the image is rendered? If so, it is a Raw histogram. I did that test and I could not see that change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 26, 2015 Share #13 Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) No you don't have to do that, sharpness and contrast can be changed even if you shoot DNG only and since changing them did affect the histogram on the LCD it tells me it is based on the JPEG. Wrong. The settings are in the menu, but only apply to JPEG, with no absolutely no effect on DNG....as the manual clearly states (for my M and should be same for the M246)....and as logic provides. If you doubt it, try altering the settings and check your DNG files in LR or other software. Just sayin'. Jeff Edited August 26, 2015 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted August 26, 2015 Share #14 Posted August 26, 2015 Jeff is correct. These settings do not affect your raw file at all. If you increase the contrast and sharpness to the max, your DNG will appear exactly the same way as if you leave everything neutral. These settings absolutely only affect the JPEG. My guess would have been that if you shoot DNG+JPEG, the histogram will refer to the JPEG, but if you say that it doesn't change when you shoot Raw only, I guess it doesn't do it. This is bizarre. Can anyone who has both the MM and M246 chime in on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 26, 2015 Share #15 Posted August 26, 2015 Wrong. The settings are in the menu, but only apply to JPEG, with no absolutely no effect on DNG....as the manual clearly states (for my M and should be same for the M246)....and as logic provides. If you doubt it, try altering the settings and check your DNG files in LR or other software. Just sayin'. Jeff Ok, I was a little bit unclear but since the post was about the histogram in the camera I thought I didn't have to mention that. I am not talking about changing the DNG file and I am fully aware that any such setting in the camera do not effect the raw file. I have the whole time been talking about how changing the Sharpening and Contrast setting affects the displayed histogram, if you take two photos of the same scene under the same light with the same exposure but change the above settings then the histogram on the LCD will look differently between the two, which proves my main point that the histogram on the LCD is based on the JPEG data and not the raw data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 26, 2015 Share #16 Posted August 26, 2015 Jeff is correct. These settings do not affect your raw file at all. If you increase the contrast and sharpness to the max, your DNG will appear exactly the same way as if you leave everything neutral. These settings absolutely only affect the JPEG. My guess would have been that if you shoot DNG+JPEG, the histogram will refer to the JPEG, but if you say that it doesn't change when you shoot Raw only, I guess it doesn't do it. This is bizarre. Can anyone who has both the MM and M246 chime in on this? Then DNG file does not only contain raw data and EXIF information but also at least one JPEG file (possibly two, a thumbnail and one larger) and it is this file that gets displayed on your LCD when you've taken the shot and on which the histogram is based. For the original MM the first histogram from the JPEG was apparently replaced with one calculated from the raw data after a few seconds but that doesn't seem to happen with the new MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2015 Share #17 Posted August 26, 2015 Hmm....a good reason to stick to the old Monochrom for me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted August 26, 2015 Share #18 Posted August 26, 2015 Hmm....a good reason to stick to the old Monochrom for me. Yes, that is something that makes the original MM unique not only among Leica cameras but also among any other mirrorless or dslr as far as I know. Really strange that displaying a correct histogram is such a hard issue to solve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 26, 2015 Share #19 Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) This is a pretty basic question for someone like Michael H. or David Farkas, who understand the technical underpinnings. Doesn't the manual address this? If RAW histogram is not displayed, various technical descriptions I've read, e.g., on the B&H site, are incorrect. Jeff Edited August 26, 2015 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted August 26, 2015 Share #20 Posted August 26, 2015 Strange. I hope someone will chime in and explain what is going on here. I don't use the Raw histogram all that often, but it does come in handy with landscapes and other "slow" subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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