Replacement Sensor

[Deliberate1]

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My four year old M9 is developing unmistakable signs of sensor corrosion. I have read how long it is taking to get the work done in NJ, so I am no hurry. So far I can deal with the images in post processing. Though I can easily imagine there will be others where the imperfections are not so easily remedied.

So my first question is whether Leica is using the new version of the sensor when it makes the repairs. And if so, those of you who have received yours, do they paint images in the same way as the old one.

Would also be interested to hear from those who opted for the M upgrade and whether you are happy with your choice. I thought I had persuaded myself get a monochrom version. But today, I worked on several M9 images, some of which I processed as monochrom. And as I did, it occurred to me that it may be best to get the M so that I have the flexibility to preserve in color and do conversions if I like. It goes without saying that the reverse is not possible. And I have seen various articles which speak very highly of the M conversions to monochrom.

Obliged for your thoughts

David

[DandA]

David, from what I understand, Leica is quite a few months away from beginning using the newly developed/ modified sensor for sensor replacement, so its almost a certainty you will receive the same type of sensor you currently have as a replacement.

 

Many who took the upgrade path to the new M (M240) are glad they did although I know some who wished or returned to using a M9. For color work its subjective. Some enjoy and are satisfied with the M240 cor output while others still favor M9 color output of which I am one of them.

 

Most agree that the M240 is superior in B&W conversion with regards to tonality and other image characteristics as compared to the M9 conversions, so its both a tradeoff and personal decision. Since the color output of the M9 was so important to me for my photographic work, I opted for a monochrom to use along side it.

 

You ahould try using a M240 and decide if its the right camera for you and then a well informed decision for your own personal needs and expectations can be realized.

 

Dave (D&A)

[rafikiphoto]

My MM will be back home tomorrow after a sensor transplant in Wetzlar. I asked the question and was told my replacement is the original type.

[Deliberate1]

David, from what I understand, Leica is quite a few months away from beginning using the newly developed/ modified sensor for sensor replacement, so its almost a certainty you will receive the same type of sensor you currently have as a replacement.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. This experience is  a shame for both Leica and its customers. To whatever extent the incidence of corrosion happens to the "new-old" replacement sensors, one will have to endure another repair inconvenience and Leica absorbs the cost. Though, on balance, I would rather be on my side of the equation.My current sensor (v.2) is a replacement for the original that cracked (v.1). And it corroded. If the new v.2 device ultimately corrodes as well and needs to be replaced with a v.3 sensor, that makes four sensors for one camera. Not much profit margin for Leica. And a bit of disappointment on my part.  But a ton of good will. In a strange calculus, perhaps it makes even more sense to get an an M9M because of the corrosion issue. Once it happens, you get a largely refurbished camera (my repaired M9 came back all shiny) with a lifetime warranty on the sensor with whatever  CLA work goes along with the replacement process. With nice M9M versions now going on Ebay for $3500+, and with potential downside pressure once the M246 ships in earnest, not a bad trade at all.

 

David

[tobey bilek]

They may use the original until all stock is exhausted and new is available.  

[Deliberate1]

They may use the original until all stock is exhausted and new is available.  

Perhaps. But it seems to me that replacing a failed sensor with the very same version, despite the availability of a cure, nearly guarantees that Leica will see that camera again. That, of course, assumes that the new one is available, as you say.

[jdlaing]

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It's still being tested.

[DandA]

It's still being tested.

Exactly! Leica has to be sure the response and output of files remains virtually the same as the original semsor. Sometimes thia is easier said then done. Who knows, high ISO performance may allow.use of ISO 50,000 with little noise with new sensor . Now has anyone seen the Easter bunny LOL!

 

Dave (D&A)

[Deliberate1]

Exactly! Leica has to be sure the response and output of files remains virtually the same as the original semsor. Sometimes thia is easier said then done. Who knows, high ISO performance may allow.use of ISO 50,000 with little noise with new sensor . Now has anyone seen the Easter bunny LOL!

 

Dave (D&A)

Interesting dilemma. Leica clearly has the capacity to put a "better" replacement sensor in the M9 whose technology is five years old. Perhaps a version of the M or Q sensor. But to do so would be seen as a competitor to those more recent camera versions. And as a source of angst for those who "traded up" from the M9. I would be content to get a replacement sensor that does what the old one does without disintegrating. 

[ThePioneer]

Interesting dilemma. Leica clearly has the capacity to put a "better" replacement sensor in the M9 whose technology is five years old. Perhaps a version of the M or Q sensor. But to do so would be seen as a competitor to those more recent camera versions. And as a source of angst for those who "traded up" from the M9. I would be content to get a replacement sensor that does what the old one does without disintegrating. 

I don't think that is actually possible. Those cameras you mention use the CMOS sensor. To put one of those into the M9 would undoubtedly require different electronics to support it since the visual information is handled differently by each sensor.

 

Of course, I guess anything is possible. Kind of like shoveling a big V8 engine into a small English sports car and calling it a Cobra.

[pop]

The problem of the disintegrating sensor does not affect the actual sensor itself but "merely" the sheet of glass which covers the sensor. In the new sensor the electronic part of the sensor remains the same but is covered by a sheet of another type of glass.

[DandA]

All kidding aside ( and trust me I kove the lighthearted humor), I think all Leica is tring to achieve with the upgraded sensor is simply as similar an output response as compared to the original current sensor. First those that purchases the M9 for a particular look will have that continue. Secondly little would have to be changed regarding firmware. Sometimes we let our desires and imagination run wild.

 

Dave (D&A)

[jdlaing]

The problem of the disintegrating sensor does not affect the actual sensor itself but "merely" the sheet of glass which covers the sensor. In the new sensor the electronic part of the sensor remains the same but is covered by a sheet of another type of glass.

Or another types of coatings. 

[DandA]

Even changing coatings or type of coverglass can change the spectral response. Thats why I believe Leica is being careful and testing very carefully before using this as a replacement sensor.

 

Dave (D&A)

[Ted Lemon]

Just had CS upgrade my MM to M246 took 4 weeks total turnaround including pickup/delivery. Price for upgrade valued my MM (three years old) at current second hand prices shown on my dealer site so good value I reckon. My M8 was upgraded via a similar process to an ME because of the coffee stain issue and if the ME gets sensor corrosion I will have to make a decision on that.

 

Funny old game as they say.

[sblutter]

I got notice my M-E was received by Allendale this morning - we'll see what happens.

 

Glad my M9P is showing no signs of corrosion.  Is working per brand new.

 

I skipped the 240 and don't want a mono - am hoping the next version solves all problems / deficiencies and will be my camera for a very long time.  But haven't I said that many times in the past already? 

 

Here's one thing - the software has been well ahead of the hardware for several years

[asiafish]

I noticed sensor issues on my M Monochrom last years and it went to New Jersey, came back 6-weeks-later with the sensor cleaned, but not replaced.  I thought all was fine.

 

Bought a brand-new M-E in April, by June I noticed some issues with the sensor and sent it off to New Jersey in July.  Sensor corrosion, sensors (old type) on backorder until late September.  Meanwhile, M Monochrom shows a splotch in exactly the same place and shape it did last year, so it too went back to New Jersey last week, also for a mid-September return date.

 

Leica did send me an M240 loaner and I still have my X cameras, so all is well, but I especially miss my M Monochrom.

[ShivaYash]

So you prefer the M-E CCD to the M240 CMOS?

 

I noticed sensor issues on my M Monochrom last years and it went to New Jersey, came back 6-weeks-later with the sensor cleaned, but not replaced.  I thought all was fine.

 

Bought a brand-new M-E in April, by June I noticed some issues with the sensor and sent it off to New Jersey in July.  Sensor corrosion, sensors (old type) on backorder until late September.  Meanwhile, M Monochrom shows a splotch in exactly the same place and shape it did last year, so it too went back to New Jersey last week, also for a mid-September return date.

 

Leica did send me an M240 loaner and I still have my X cameras, so all is well, but I especially miss my M Monochrom.