digitalfx Posted July 26, 2015 Share #41 Posted July 26, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I find the clipping and histograms to be of somewhat limited use even when they are linked to the actual exposure when they are based on the jpeg file and not the RAW as they tend to be very conservative in reference to the highlight range correct, its far from accurate. Generally what is showing as clipping is not clipped. If they can't give us an accurate clipping indicator or histogram, then they should be removed. The false info is of no value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Hi digitalfx, Take a look here What we see not what we get?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mjh Posted July 27, 2015 Share #42 Posted July 27, 2015 The live histogram is based on the live view image – what else could it be based on? The histogram in playback mode is based on the JPEG image (as usual). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 27, 2015 Share #43 Posted July 27, 2015 The live histogram is based on the live view image – what else could it be based on? The histogram in playback mode is based on the JPEG image (as usual). Its based on the live view image as sent to the EVF and LCD with a wide open aperture. It should be based on the live view stopped down to the actual exposure set...that is if you want it to be useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted July 27, 2015 Share #44 Posted July 27, 2015 correct, its far from accurate. Generally what is showing as clipping is not clipped. If they can't give us an accurate clipping indicator or histogram, then they should be removed. The false info is of no value. True though partly in their defence I have found that highlight clipping to be almost as inefective in other makes of camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted July 27, 2015 Share #45 Posted July 27, 2015 The live histogram is based on the live view image – what else could it be based on? The histogram in playback mode is based on the JPEG image (as usual). Again true but whatever it is based on especially the clipping function is not of any real use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snz Posted July 27, 2015 Share #46 Posted July 27, 2015 The live histogram is based on the live view image – what else could it be based on? Well it's not unless you are in full manual mode. Try to set your Q in some kind of A-mode (auto ISO, shutter, etc) and to deliberately over- or underexpose. The histogram will still show a perfectly fine image, which it shouldn't at this point since when you half press the shutter you see what your settings actually do. This makes the histogram pretty useless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk.kat Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share #47 Posted July 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just checked the histogram on my OMD: it responds to changes made to speed/exposure compensation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettori Posted July 27, 2015 Share #48 Posted July 27, 2015 The histogram can only show the light that hits the sensor, so if the Q doesn't preview the exposure set even the histogram can't show that. P.S. I'm waiting my Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T44ISKN Posted July 27, 2015 Share #49 Posted July 27, 2015 Well it's not unless you are in full manual mode. Unfortunately this doesn't even work in Manual mode. Try changing the aperture or shutter speed and see if the live histogram changes. It doesn't, which makes it useless in live view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettori Posted July 27, 2015 Share #50 Posted July 27, 2015 I don't use the histogram a lot when taking a photo (I use it in lightroom/ps). How do you find it useful when taking a photo ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snz Posted July 27, 2015 Share #51 Posted July 27, 2015 The histogram can only show the light that hits the sensor, so if the Q doesn't preview the exposure set even the histogram can't show that. That is not correct I'm afraid. One of the main advantages of mirrorless cameras (the Q is nothing else) is to see what you will get before taking the shot. This works perfectly fine with Sony, Fuji and Olympus cameras. When you change your settings it will be displayed in live view and in the histogram. The Q doesn't do that and after a few days of using it, it's my biggest complain about the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 27, 2015 Share #52 Posted July 27, 2015 I don't use the histogram a lot when taking a photo (I use it in lightroom/ps). How do you find it useful when taking a photo ? The same way you use it in Lightroom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettori Posted July 27, 2015 Share #53 Posted July 27, 2015 That is not correct I'm afraid. One of the main advantages of mirrorless cameras (the Q is nothing else) is to see what you will get before taking the shot. This works perfectly fine with Sony, Fuji and Olympus cameras. When you change your settings it will be displayed in live view and in the histogram. The Q doesn't do that and after a few days of using it, it's my biggest complain about the camera. If they do that it means that they actually close the aperture... The Q is simply working always at the max aperture. On my OMD-EM1 I can do both things. I can configure it to show the actual exposure on the EVF or to show a bright EVF whatever exposure I set. But when I configure it to show "always bright" EVF, the histogram doesn't change when I change the aperture because the sensor is always hit by the same light, whatever aperture I set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettori Posted July 27, 2015 Share #54 Posted July 27, 2015 The same way you use it in Lightroom Well I actually use it only when I change the highlights, shadows, contrast, etc... sliders. When taking a photo I usually keep an eye at the exposure bar when working in manual mode and I rely on what I view on the viewfinder. I'm really interested in understanding how others use the histogram when taking a photo, i.e. what you look at and what you do based on the histogram to make a better photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 27, 2015 Share #55 Posted July 27, 2015 http://petapixel.com/2015/07/01/a-primer-on-reading-and-using-histograms/ http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2013/06/27/histogram-photography-cheat-sheets-for-achieving-perfect-exposure/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 27, 2015 Share #56 Posted July 27, 2015 If they do that it means that they actually close the aperture... The Q is simply working always at the max aperture. On my OMD-EM1 I can do both things. I can configure it to show the actual exposure on the EVF or to show a bright EVF whatever exposure I set. But when I configure it to show "always bright" EVF, the histogram doesn't change when I change the aperture because the sensor is always hit by the same light, whatever aperture I set. yes but the Histogram on the Q disappears when you stop down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettori Posted July 27, 2015 Share #57 Posted July 27, 2015 yes but the Histogram on the Q disappears when you stop down Sure this is a problem and they should fix it! But again, they can't show the "exposure-affected histogram" when the shutter is not half pressed unless they actually close the aperture and this means the EVF won't be 'always bright' (unless they "pump the iso" on the EVF data that is what my Nikon does when I use live view but you start to see all kind of digital noise in this case)... I'm saying you can't get both things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 27, 2015 Share #58 Posted July 27, 2015 Sure this is a problem and they should fix it! But again, they can't show the "exposure-affected histogram" when the shutter is not half pressed unless they actually close the aperture and this means the EVF won't be 'always bright' (unless they "pump the iso" on the EVF data that is what my Nikon does when I use live view but you start to see all kind of digital noise in this case)... I'm saying you can't get both things. I wouldn't be so sure about that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted July 27, 2015 Share #59 Posted July 27, 2015 A few observations of possible interest: In aperture priority, if you change the exposure compensation you can see the result in the histogram after a half press of the shutter button; however, you will not see it if you just change the aperture. The same is not true for shutter priority. You must also have a fixed ISO value. More useful than the histogram is the exposure scale at the bottom in manual mode it will show you whether you are over or under exposed and if you are over three stops over or under it shows it in red. You can then adjust your shutter speed or aperture or both until it shows proper exposure. Again, ISO must be fixed or it will adjust ISO to compensate. It would appear, that as others have observed, the histogram as implemented is of little value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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