fiftyonepointsix Posted July 22, 2015 Share #41 Posted July 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure about "better photographer because you use a Leica", no numbers. In the preceding article about high-speed lenses, this is in error :"For years Leica trailed Zeiss, the acknowledged leader in optical design, in producing high-speed lenses. Already in 1928, Zeiss had released the 50/1.5 Sonnar, a 7-element modified triple with only 6 air-glass surfaces (in an era of uncoated lenses, each uncoated surface reduced light transmission by about 15%, which was why fast lenses were so difficult to produce before the advent of lens coating)" in 1928 Zeiss had a line of F1.4 Biotars made for the movie industry, I have a 4cm F1.4 Biotar. Very low production. The 5cm F1.5 Sonnar for 35mm still frame (24x36) was 1932. Each uncoated surface lost 4% of the light, not 15%.(Zeiss first started applying coatings in 1936, reduced it to 1%. I have one from that batch.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Hi fiftyonepointsix, Take a look here Are You a Better Photographer b/c You Use a leica Monochrom?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
batmobile Posted July 22, 2015 Share #42 Posted July 22, 2015 Enjoying what you do will usually bring about better results because you do it more often. So maybe. I can't say that I have thought about it in those terms, only that I have been very happy with the results I have achieved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieboy Posted October 23, 2015 Share #43 Posted October 23, 2015 The answer is yes, anyone is a better photographer because they use a Monochrom. But the key word is "use", not the particular camera. You could substitute any camera in the sentence. The more you use it, the better you get. The Monochrom is a special camera though. A dream come true. And if a camera encourages/inspires you to use it, then I guess you could say that it makes you a better photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 24, 2015 Share #44 Posted October 24, 2015 The M246 has helped me improve my photographic skills, and show me that there is plenty of room for further improvement. I love this little camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 26, 2015 Share #45 Posted October 26, 2015 Yeah, you are a better photographer if you do not know how to transform RGB into the same, or similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted October 26, 2015 Share #46 Posted October 26, 2015 A camera does not a photographer make. Cameras do not improve a photographer's skill set. Practice improves a skill set, and a good skill set makes a good photographer. Cameras are tools. There are many kinds of cameras because some do some kinds of jobs better than others, but none of them do the job well without the photographer having the skill set to make them do what they intend them to do. Cameras with less automation require more input from the photographer to make an image look the way the photographer wants it to look. Cameras with automation make the image the way the programmer wanted it to look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted October 26, 2015 Share #47 Posted October 26, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yeah, you are a better photographer if you do not know how to transform RGB into the same, or similar. I don't know about others here but when I'm out with my M240, I'm consciously or subconsciously thinking composition, light and colour. With the M246 my mindset is different .... I have to think how this particular photo is going to turn out in grey scale. That's not to say that photos taken with my 240 don't end up monochrome, but I'm embarrassed to say that's likely a decision made in PP rather than one made in the field. Does the MM2 make me a better photographer? Maybe, but only because it forces me to be a more thoughtful photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan1985 Posted October 26, 2015 Share #48 Posted October 26, 2015 What I just can tell is. The Monochrom makes more visionary, creative and brings in some kind of process that i never had before. I am doing most time portrait and wedding photography. What i noticed is, that now my pictures are more authentic and personal. And i often try more to tell a story with my pictures. That is what i love. Not that i feel more nostalgic to make something looking like classic photographs. In the End the MM is only a tool and if you feel more inspired yes it makes you better. But in a case of another one also a m240, an m9 or a canon 5d mark iii can someone make a better photographer. So equipment is always a deciding factor in photography for me. That doesnt mean you must own the most expensive tools. What i really love about the MM1 that it sometimes renders in a very film like look. It looks organic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 26, 2015 Share #49 Posted October 26, 2015 Yeah, you are a better photographer if you do not know how to transform RGB into the same, or similar. Maybe something was lost in the internet translation, but I think that's a little presumptuous of you. I, for one, grew up developing and printing B&W film, and transforming RGB channels into monochrome is not an unknown art. As Jennifer alluded to, restricting oneself to B&W reinforces sensitivity to tones, much the same as restricting one sense heightens the awareness of others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted October 26, 2015 Share #50 Posted October 26, 2015 I think that what most of you are reporting is not what the camera "makes" you do, nor is there some mystical property about the cameras. You're discovering self-discipline that you've never exercised before with any other piece of gear. There's nothing magical about the CCD or CMOS sensor that suddenly transforms your ability to make images. You can do exactly the same kinds of images with ANY other pro-level equipment; it's just that they all do it for you if you let them; and most folks do let the camera (actually the guy who wrote the code in the program) do the work. The Leica bodies don't allow you to be lazy. Most of you who are shooting the MM are learning to use Ansel Adams' Zone System, even if you've never studied it formally. You're using a manual control body, and not letting the camera automation make the exposure for you. Interestingly all of the pro-level digital cameras allow you to do that; but it's more difficult to do because the controls are generally buried in menus and buttons rather than dials. I'd venture to say that (for many) for the first time in your career you've begun to understand some of the basics of the physics of light; how to begin to capture it accurately; and the discipline required to make your tools work for you. Give yourself some credit. it's YOU who are beginning to use your tools more efficiently, not the camera doing anything magical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyonepointsix Posted October 26, 2015 Share #51 Posted October 26, 2015 https://www.leicaplace.com/threads/1145/ I know how to convert a color DNG file to monochrome. The M Monochrom produces higher resolution monochrome files without conversion artifacts because it can be used with optical pre-processing. Better monochrome image, in terms of resolution and being free of artifacts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 26, 2015 Share #52 Posted October 26, 2015 I think that what most of you are reporting is not what the camera "makes" you do, nor is there some mystical property about the cameras. You're discovering self-discipline that you've never exercised before with any other piece of gear. There's nothing magical about the CCD or CMOS sensor that suddenly transforms your ability to make images. You can do exactly the same kinds of images with ANY other pro-level equipment; it's just that they all do it for you if you let them; and most folks do let the camera (actually the guy who wrote the code in the program) do the work. The Leica bodies don't allow you to be lazy. Most of you who are shooting the MM are learning to use Ansel Adams' Zone System, even if you've never studied it formally. You're using a manual control body, and not letting the camera automation make the exposure for you. Interestingly all of the pro-level digital cameras allow you to do that; but it's more difficult to do because the controls are generally buried in menus and buttons rather than dials. I'd venture to say that (for many) for the first time in your career you've begun to understand some of the basics of the physics of light; how to begin to capture it accurately; and the discipline required to make your tools work for you. Give yourself some credit. it's YOU who are beginning to use your tools more efficiently, not the camera doing anything magical. I guess I don't fit into that "most of you" statistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted October 26, 2015 Share #53 Posted October 26, 2015 I guess I don't fit into that "most of you" statistic. Nor do I; hence my post. Like you, I shot, processed and printed both b&w and color film for over twenty years before the advent of digital. I don't think that most folks who "grew up" shooting, processing, and printing film fit that profile, but we now have an entire generation who haven't had those experiences; a generation for whom there has always been digital photography; or at the very least, camera automation in photography with the advent of the Konica Autoreflex (Autorex) in 1965, and the Minolta Maxxum with autofocus in 1985. Frankly, I have to think that Leica pricing and their excellent advertising and product placement has played a role in developing the "Leica mystique" that seems to be so prevalent in some of these discussions as well. Collectors of Leica equipment for its intrinsic value haven't helped either. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching John Berger's 1972 BBC production "Ways of Seeing." The role of advertising in changing the way we see is discussed in Part 4 of that series. Watching the entire series is well worth the time spent, but if nothing else, watch Part 4. Remembering that we have had over forty years of ad people perfecting their craft since that series was filmed (and the book written.) The rise of the "Leica Mystique" and a camera's elevation to cult status over it's ability to "make you a better photographer" astounds me. (Leica never overtly makes that claim, btw... it's only in places like this that the claim is made among people who own them...) What makes you a better photographer is your mastery of the craft... not which gear you choose... which has even been proven over and over by owners of Leica equipment... the use of the M4 made you a "journalist," while buying the M5 made you "foolish" because it wasn't a "real" M. Shooting with the M8 in 2006 made you part of the "Leica Mystique." Now, in 2015, it makes you a quaint hobby shooter who can't afford an M240. It's amazing how those perceptions among the public change, and its not only the advertising that helps change them, it's forums and threads like this that make some equipment fashionable for a while and then discarded with others elevated to cult status. It brings to mind the episode of David Tennant's "Dr. Who" where, in an alternate universe, the entire world was plugged into the same multi-media earpiece listening to the same thing... and they all simultaneously stop dead in their tracks for a period of time because the earpiece told them to. No, EoinC, neither you nor I are part of that statistic. I fear we, and others like us, may be... old timers who yet insist that there's more to making good images than the equipment you carry; those of us who believe that selection of shutter speed, aperture and use of DOF, and the mastery of the Zone System, and its use are important. Cropping and using the right lens for the task at hand is important. We know and understand how perspective changes with distance and fixed-focal-length rather than using a zoom from one spot. Those of us who believe that understanding the physics of the color of light and how that affects images is important... and last, those of us who believe that if you want to try to identify what equipment was used to make an image when you look at it, that the image itself isn't very compelling. Yes, EoinC, I fear that we may just be "old timers." And I don't think that's a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 26, 2015 Share #54 Posted October 26, 2015 My earlier comment regarding converting from RGB to monochrome was off-target. If a person chooses to use a Monochrom, then he accepts a significant limitation, and limitations can be important in developing a skill or a particular vision. A well published artist I knew used a cereal box with a lot of duct tape and a pinhole over paper negatives. She did this for most of her long career. Now that's limiting! The characteristics, limits she imposed informed her towards very good work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 26, 2015 Share #55 Posted October 26, 2015 Thank you for the John Berger "Ways of seeing" reference, Hepcat. Thanks to the wonders of Youtube, I've started watching Episode 1. I wouldn't give up hope on younger generations. My teenage niece recently showed me her (B&W) photography portfolio from school, which showed a "developing" understanding of composition and tone. In talking with her, she understands the relationships of ISO/ASA, shutter speed, aperture, and DOF. The Box Brownie probably triggered the interest of more life-long lovers of photography than we shall ever know. The same may apply to the camera-phones of today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 26, 2015 Share #56 Posted October 26, 2015 My earlier comment regarding converting from RGB to monochrome was off-target. If a person chooses to use a Monochrom, then he accepts a significant limitation, and limitations can be important in developing a skill or a particular vision. A well published artist I knew used a cereal box with a lot of duct tape and a pinhole over paper negatives. She did this for most of her long career. Now that's limiting! The characteristics, limits she imposed informed her towards very good work. I think that's a good point, Pico. A camera is just a tool. A standard claw hammer can do most hammer related jobs fairly well, but a ball peen hammer is better for shaping metal. A ball peen hammer is spectacularly poor at pulling nails out, though. Of the 2 factors (right tool for the job, and ability to use the tool), ability is much more important than tool choice, but toll choice is still a factor once the ability exists. I find that the M246 is the ball peen hammer that helps me focus on improving my panelbeating skills, and Lightroom / Capture are the metaphorical bog that help me cover up my hammering mistakes (or something like that...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyonepointsix Posted October 26, 2015 Share #57 Posted October 26, 2015 Too funny- I worked in a camera shop paying my way through school in the mid 70s as a Physics major. A customer had made some remark that I had overheard about how salesmen didn't know anything about the equipment that they sold. He stepped up to the counter and had me pull out a zoom lens and then stated "Okay, explain to me how this works"... Told him, good timing for you. He did buy the lens. I worked on Digital imagers in the 1980s, did the data acquisition systems and signal processing algorithms for them. The M Monochrom is special, a way of thinking about the image before releasing the shutter rather than hovering over a computer. I'm currently in my home office, surrounded by Ten computers. But I get paid to write code for the other 9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted October 28, 2015 Share #58 Posted October 28, 2015 Using a Monochrom sends me back to 1968 where I am a freshman in art college learning the skills I'll need over my working life. Back then it was a M2R with a 50 Summicron. That camera was always loaded with TriX that I bought in bulk and cranked into cassettes. Now there is no film. But it is the same discipline. With the Monochrom, I'm seeing form, composition and light. Everything is both simple and pure at the same time. I don't need to go wider or longer when composing. I just frame and expose. This camera improves my vision by taking me full circle back to the beginning. It is the best retirement gift I could have given myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted January 14, 2016 Share #59 Posted January 14, 2016 Using a Monochrom sends me back to 1968 where I am a freshman in art college learning the skills I'll need over my working life. Back then it was a M2R with a 50 Summicron. That camera was always loaded with TriX that I bought in bulk and cranked into cassettes. Now there is no film. But it is the same discipline. With the Monochrom, I'm seeing form, composition and light. Everything is both simple and pure at the same time. I don't need to go wider or longer when composing. I just frame and expose. This camera improves my vision by taking me full circle back to the beginning. It is the best retirement gift I could have given myself. I'm baffled by the comment that 'now there is no film'. Of course there is film! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted January 15, 2016 Share #60 Posted January 15, 2016 Better? No. But I do have to prioritize things differently. I can't rely on highlight recovery in Lightroom which means I need to be more mindful of my exposure and framing. And I can't use gimmicks like manipulating color channels in LR to alter monochrome tones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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