biglou Posted June 3, 2015 Share #41 Posted June 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought Kodak Technical Pan was discontinued around 1984 and i still miss it. Do you have old stock or something else approaching ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Hi biglou, Take a look here APO 50 FILM images. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
A miller Posted June 3, 2015 Share #42 Posted June 3, 2015 I apologize in advance if I am mis-reading it but this just makes no sense to me & it kind of sounds like film is not up to the same task of exploiting the lens that digital is. I am strongly considering renting this lens for a project using Techpan film that will be a set of still life images of certain things painted entirely black with insane lighting. That will absolutely exploit the very limits of this lens, especially when darkroom printed to 20x24 and above. These are images I could easily shoot in TP in medium format but I I feel there is a certain look it might impart with the 50AA. While not the planned subject matter, the lighting in the attached image is exactly what I am talking about where the lens would excel in. Never suggested that the 50 APO won't give you amazing images. But the idea of spending $8K to buy a lens in order to achieve marginally better 35mm landscape and/or architecture photographs baffles me. Why anyone so OCD about optimazing the overal resolution of their image wouldn't just use this money and buy the absolute best MF gear (and have lots of $ left over for future GAS episodes) and really get the tangible improved results is something that I don't think that I'll ever understand from anyone on this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 3, 2015 Share #43 Posted June 3, 2015 I thought Kodak Technical Pan was discontinued around 1984 and i still miss it. Do you have old stock or something else approaching ? http://www.adox.de/Technical_Informations/CMS20_ADOTECHII_instructions.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 3, 2015 Share #44 Posted June 3, 2015 Ektar is indeed a lovely film: M7 & Ektar 100, 28mm MATE & 35mm Summilux ASPH (FLE) - sorry no 50's yet! Lovely photos, Mark, thank you. Nicely saturated (at least on my screen here in the office) for Ektar. Waverley cemetery by any chance? I'm not sure I see the use in analysing which medium is able to extract the most from this, or any. lens. Film and digital simply work differently. But I think it can be said quite convincingly that from a technical-optical perspective (to use a layman term I may just have invented) any image, regardless of medium, will benefit from a better (another wonderfully indistinct term) lens. That said, who wants perfection all the time? Nevertheless, if I had the money to spend I might consider the 50 APO. For now I am very happy in the 50mm range with the Summilux Asph, the pre-asph, the Summicron II. Oh, and the Summitar. Br Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted June 3, 2015 Share #45 Posted June 3, 2015 I thought Kodak Technical Pan was discontinued around 1984 and i still miss it.Do you have old stock or something else approaching ? Actually it was nixed some 20 years later around 2004. I have a good stash of it in 35 & 120. But there is also Rollei ATP 1.1 as the modern varietal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 3, 2015 Share #46 Posted June 3, 2015 Lovely photos, Mark, thank you. Nicely saturated (at least on my screen here in the office) for Ektar. Waverley cemetery by any chance? I'm not sure I see the use in analysing which medium is able to extract the most from this, or any. lens. Film and digital simply work differently. But I think it can be said quite convincingly that from a technical-optical perspective (to use a layman term I may just have invented) any image, regardless of medium, will benefit from a better (another wonderfully indistinct term) lens. That said, who wants perfection all the time? Nevertheless, if I had the money to spend I might consider the 50 APO. For now I am very happy in the 50mm range with the Summilux Asph, the pre-asph, the Summicron II. Oh, and the Summitar. Br Philip Waverly Cemetery indeed. Are you a local? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted June 3, 2015 Share #47 Posted June 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Never suggested that the 50 APO won't give you amazing images. But the idea of spending $8K to buy a lens in order to achieve marginally better 35mm landscape and/or architecture photographs baffles me. Why anyone so OCD about optimazing the overal resolution of their image wouldn't just use this money and buy the absolute best MF gear and really get the tangible improved results is something that I don't think that I'll ever understand from anyone on this thread. I think we basically agree, that is why the most coin I would lay out for it would to be to rent it for up to a week, I own a large system of the best MF gear out there plus a complete Mamiya 6 kit. I just can't ever see buying it though, suspecting the gains over a much more versatile ( to me ) lens like the lux asph would not justify the 2 fold price, digital or film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 3, 2015 Share #48 Posted June 3, 2015 Waverly Cemetery indeed. Are you a local? A very beautiful cemetery in an amazing location. I'm unfortunately not, but my wife and I were in Oz a few years ago for a friend's wedding in Byron Bay and spent some time along the east coast and in Sydney. Lovely part of the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 3, 2015 Share #49 Posted June 3, 2015 Lovely photos, Mark, thank you. Nicely saturated (at least on my screen here in the office) for Ektar. Waverley cemetery by any chance? I'm not sure I see the use in analysing which medium is able to extract the most from this, or any. lens. Film and digital simply work differently. But I think it can be said quite convincingly that from a technical-optical perspective (to use a layman term I may just have invented) any image, regardless of medium, will benefit from a better (another wonderfully indistinct term) lens. That said, who wants perfection all the time? Nevertheless, if I had the money to spend I might consider the 50 APO. For now I am very happy in the 50mm range with the Summilux Asph, the pre-asph, the Summicron II. Oh, and the Summitar. Br Philip Philip - If you only had $ to purchase your beautiful Hassy or the 50 APO, which would you purchase? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 3, 2015 Share #50 Posted June 3, 2015 Hi Adam, these is no way I would have bought an APO if I was out on the street sticking a film camera and flash in my victim's faces (I'm not being unpleasant but light hearted with that comment ). However I really like landscapes and print to >A2 and for the right image do want the quality without going to MF. Furthermore I think that I may really like the rendering of the lens for other photography. I've spent ages deciding whether the get the lens and only did so when I had an opportunity to buy a new one at an astoundingly good price - it arrived today. It's really for the Monochrom v1 and M240 but I'm really interested to see how it performs with film. I will not keep the 50 APO-Summicron and 50 Summilux FLE so I will make a choice between the two -(haven't I said that before !) I don't want a Hasselblad or anything near the size or weight. I was leant two beautiful Hasselblad bodies and a range of 6 Hasselblad lenses from wide to 350mm a year ago from a close friend. Great fun for a while but then I really didn't want to lug all that stuff round and was more than happy to return it. Now a Plaubel-Makina 67 with that lovely Nikon lens . Do I need an APO-Summicron? No Did I want one? Eventually I did. Will it improve my photography? Of course not. Will it make me happy using it and seeing the results? I blood well hope so ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 3, 2015 Share #51 Posted June 3, 2015 Hi Adam, these is no way I would have bought an APO if I was out on the street sticking a film camera and flash in my victim's faces (I'm not being unpleasant but light hearted with that comment ). However I really like landscapes and print to >A2 and for the right image do want the quality without going to MF. Furthermore I think that I may really like the rendering of the lens for other photography. I've spent ages deciding whether the get the lens and only did so when I had an opportunity to buy a new one at an astoundingly good price - it arrived today. It's really for the Monochrom v1 and M240 but I'm really interested to see how it performs with film. I will not keep the 50 APO-Summicron and 50 Summilux FLE so I will make a choice between the two -(haven't I said that before !) I don't want a Hasselblad or anything near the size or weight. I was leant two beautiful Hasselblad bodies and a range of 6 Hasselblad lenses from wide to 350mm a year ago from a close friend. Great fun for a while but then I really didn't want to lug all that stuff round and was more than happy to return it. Now a Plaubel-Makina 67 with that lovely Nikon lens . Do I need an APO-Summicron? No Did I want one? Eventually I did. Will it improve my photography? Of course not. Will it make me happy using it and seeing the results? I blood well hope so ! Hi Mark - I wouldn't use any type of 50MM for the type of shooting in the street that you described. But I would potentially have a use for the new 28mm lux, which is sort of analogous. I think a very good case can be made for this very expensive GASEOUS lens on a digital M. But I doubt very highly that I will buy it for my film use. I actually think that you are not in my line of fire b/c you are a heavy digital user and I have no doubt that you will get very meaningful incremental results with your 50mm APO onyour MM and M240. My cost-benefit challenge doesn't really apply to you, and I really am excited for you and look forward to seeing your results. I have seen prints of images taken with the 50APO taken by the monochrom and they sold me on the valuable incremental qualities of the lens. My question was really pointed directly at Philip, who I understand not to long ago invested in a gorgeous top-of-the-line Hassy. I figure he is using it to take dreamy landscapes and portraits of a quality that make professional photographers drool. I was just curious as to whether he would give his up and fork over another $3K-$4K to buy the 50mm APO lens for his 35mm photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted June 3, 2015 Share #52 Posted June 3, 2015 I find taking this on a regular basis really helps, your milage may vary.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245731-apo-50-film-images/?do=findComment&comment=2827224'>More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 3, 2015 Share #53 Posted June 3, 2015 Unfortunately, that link doesn't work...at least when I click on it. Not to challenge it but below is one more data point. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html I don't know why it didn't work. If I cut and paste the link on a browser then it works (for me). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 3, 2015 Share #54 Posted June 3, 2015 It is a very good question, Adam. In terms of money my whole Hasselblad kit cost less than a 50/2.4 Summarit though so I'd have to cough up quite a lot more to reach the lofty levels of the APO. But even if I had the money I wouldn't buy it. As we all know, technically superior lenses will improve, from a technical perspective, any image regardless of whether the image was shot on film or digital. Nevertheless, I am sure that for my style of photography I wouldn't benefit in any to me meaningful or measurable way by having the APO. I have a 50 Summilux Asph which I am very pleased with. I've stated before that by releasing the 50 APO, I think Leica in one fell swoop made the 50 Summilux Asph the best 50mm on the planet from a price-performance perspective. In fact, the prices for used lenses have dropped quite a lot since the very high levels a few years ago (about 1/4 at some dealers) which makes the comparison even better to the Summilux's advantage. The Summilux does everything I need as a film photographer - it offers crisp and clean images and a great (imho) out of focus rendering, all in a very user-friendly and small package - and can, in fact, do something that the 50 APO can't - shoot one stop faster. This is of real value to me as I bring my cameras when I am out and about and shoot in darker surroundings. The 50 APO will probably rival medium format resolution on a suitable sensor and in a controlled environment - studio, good lighting, heavy tripod, drum scanned negs - it will very likely outperform my Summilux. But I don't shoot in studios and I don't feel a need to study grain in 4000dpi scans (in fact there isn't much anyway in the slides I shoot) to marvel at the feat of optical engineering that the 50 APO undoubtedly is. All in all, I am very content with my Summilux. If I think of it, it has never let me down once. If I do want more resolution and image information then I can use the Hasselblad. In fact, I actually use it in the same way as my M cameras, my Leica II and my EOS 1N, that is, whenever the mood strikes. I take it when I shoot in the streets, on business trips, when we go to the playground, to parties, the beach etc. The size of the Hasselblad doesn't bother me and the aperture priority and really very reliable meter just make it a joy to use. From what I have seen online, there's lens agonising among Hasselblad shooters too (but not as extreme as among Leica M users it seems; even the MF forum at Luminous Landscape, which seems mainly populated by professional digital photographers, is calm by Leica standards). Some say the Planar 80, which is the only lens I so far have, is not as good as the 100/3.5 for instance. But I am very, very pleased with the results. Even with my fairly mediocre film developing skills, the small hair on people's faces (and every little bit of grub on my daughter's face ) will easily show. There's a very much information in those frames. All this being said, I do think many photographers will benefit in a very real way from the 50 APO, regardless of whether they use film or digital. A part of photography is about liking your gear and how it performs, for whatever reasons that are important to you. Part of this is to trust the gear, something which is very subjective. And if the 50 APO ticks these boxes, then in all likelihood it is the last 50 Summicron that photographer will ever have to buy. Just like the 50 Summilux is the last Summilux I will ever buy. BrPhilip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 3, 2015 Share #55 Posted June 3, 2015 There is no cure for GAS but only temporary symptomatic relief with retail therapy. Leica GAS in particular is an especially pernicious and virulent form of the disease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 3, 2015 Share #56 Posted June 3, 2015 Somehow my response to thebarnman got muddled up (UI issue?). I am including the link again about film resolution vs digital. It does work for me though. If it doesn't then just cut and paste in a browser. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 3, 2015 Share #57 Posted June 3, 2015 Philip - I think you make a very good point regarding the impact of the 50 APO on the 50 Lux ASPH, which I also own and love (also it does share time with my DR cron and elmar). And I agree with your point. I have been taking my old 1960's Linhof Technika Press with the Carl Zeiss 100mm MF camera out in the streets lately for some very random (and consensual) "photo shoots" with strangers. Wide open at f2.8 the results are simply sublime. It's like a 75mm summilux on steriods. The camera is about 10 times as heavy as your Hassy, but I look as it as an extended workout when I use it. I might post some examples on the "what's your favorite MF camera" thread in the Film forum one of these days... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 3, 2015 Share #58 Posted June 3, 2015 Philip - I think you make a very good point regarding the impact of the 50 APO on the 50 Lux ASPH, which I also own and love (also it does share time with my DR cron and elmar). And I agree with your point. I have been taking my old 1960's Linhof Technika Press with the Carl Zeiss 100mm MF camera out in the streets lately for some very random (and consensual) "photo shoots" with strangers. Wide open at f2.8 the results are simply sublime. It's like a 75mm summilux on steriods. The camera is about 10 times as heavy as your Hassy, but I look as it as an extended workout when I use it. I might post some examples on the "what's your favorite MF camera" thread in the Film forum one of these days... Thank you Adam. That is a very cool-looking camera, I have to say. I wasn't familiar with it. I look forward to the photos very much. br Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share #59 Posted June 4, 2015 Somehow my response to thebarnman got muddled up (UI issue?). I am including the link again about film resolution vs digital. It does work for me though. If it doesn't then just cut and paste in a browser. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html Thanks, it works now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share #60 Posted June 4, 2015 Somehow my response to thebarnman got muddled up (UI issue?). I am including the link again about film resolution vs digital. It does work for me though. If it doesn't then just cut and paste in a browser. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html According to this article, color transparency film looks to be pretty piss poor in one area; Sharpness. The samples of the scans are telling. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html At the same time, there is a interesting comment after the article that states: "The chrome films (Ektachrome, Fujichrome etc etc) lost a lot of sharpness because of diffusion through the emulsion layers with built in dyes. Kodachrome which was basically a B&W film with the color being added during processing was much sharper. And of course the thin emulsions with less diffusion in the gelatin layer. The emulsion thickness of film is the reason that Leica glass which seemed to focus perfectly on my M film cameras were off when used on my M8/M9 sensors which have no diffusion/tolerance and had to be recalibrated." Based off from what I just read, to help achieve sharper images onto color transparency film; use a newer lens that's designed for near perfect focus onto a digital sensor. Like one poster said earlier, the use of the newer lens designed for the digital M, helped him achieve better results with his M film camera. Also in that article, there is no mention of color negative film, B&W negative film or B&W positive film. Based from a earlier article I read, about 23 million pixels and potentially up to "400 megapixel" can be had from low speed, high resolution B&W film. http://petapixel.com/2014/12/18/comparing-image-quality-film-digital/ So I can conclude (at least to this point) with the use of the new APO 50 lens, color transparency film can surely benefit with possibly a small increase of resolution. And, in addition too; the rest of the characteristics given from that lens. So overall sharpness may be limited on color transparency film due to it's design, at least the characteristics from that lens will improve the overall look onto that type of film. I can also conclude, if someone wants to take full advantage of the APO 50 with film (with full resolution and characteristics,) a negative type film (B&W and possibly color) would surely achieve that goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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