Is there a right way or wrong way to use the Leica Monochrom

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Okay i recently started another thread about my somewhat displeasure with the quality of my Leica Monochrome pictures and after 6 pages plus of replies I have decided to keep my MM (I wouldn't have sold it anyway).

So I would like to ask all those that own a Leica Monochrom............... either the old one or the new one (I don't need to here from the old fogies about shooting film)....... I couldn't give a S^it about film .

I want to hear from owners of the Digital Leica Monochrom on what they do to get the best out of there digital MM whether it be in camera or PP (post processing)

A few things that I picked up in the previous thread were, the use of;

• Yellow/orange filters (ordered those already)
• Not to use SEP (Silver eFex Pro)
• Trying to see in Black and White

Anyway as always any help or tips would be much appreciated 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Adding pictures rather than big words would also help

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

An example of what i mean...........shot in Katmandu in December 2014

The top picture has had a wee bitty of PP done to it and the bottom one is straight out of the camera

Edit added the original histogram of the picture out of the camera

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[pico]

It would be easier to adjust when using the DNG, but here is a JPEG.

http://www.digoliardi.net/tmp.jpg

 

In some DNG processing there is an option to 'recover', which means to bring detail from hlights.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Warm peanuts..........Katmandu 

Top picture is straight out of the camera, bottom picture with some PP in Lightroom 6 and a small amount of brushing done in SEP............I really can't wait to see the effects of these files straight out of the camera with the Yellow/Orange filter........I hope I am not disappointed mutton deaf :)

 

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

It would be easier to adjust when using the DNG, but here is a JPEG.

http://www.digoliardi.net/tmp.jpg

 

In some DNG processing there is an option to 'recover', which means to bring detail from hlights.

Hay Pico

do you mind sharing what you did there..............thats really good

[sanyasi]

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It is critical that you not blow out the highlights (unless that is your intent).  I am not sure why Silver Efex is getting a bad rap.  I found starting with a preset is helpful.  I like Push Process ( the first of the two) and Fine Art (first of two).  There are a couple of film emulations I like.

 

Lately I do the gross adjustments in Silver Efex, and then bring the photograph back into Photoshop for dodging and burning.  I like the ability to work individually on shadows, mid tones, and highlights.  I find the adjustment brush in Silver Efex quirky.  It makes a huge difference on the pixel it gets pinned to.  The size of the adjustment circle also makes a difference in a some times quirky way.  It also matters whether there are other adjustment circles in the vicinity of the new circle.

 

Having said all that, I am on the fence on the new Monochrome.  With my Canon, I covert all the time to monochrome.  Those are nice photograph, too.  I think we photographers often see technical details that are lost on our audience.  That doesn't mean we should stop the focus on perfection, but we should recognize our madness.

 

Whatever you settle on, have fun.

[IkarusJohn]

Hi Neil,

 

I'm hoping this will help you - sorry I don't have any pictures handy (by the way, I think I prefer the second image above).

 

First up, equipment.  You have plenty of lenses, so I won't comment on lens selection.  If the lens is 50mm or longer, I use a magnifier (I hate out of focus shots and unlike Jaap, they work well for me).  It is worth thinking about filters, though not essential.  Many here suggest that a yellow filter is a good starting point, particularly for people shots.  Just remember that you are using filters to differentiate between colour channels (which you can manipulate if you're converting from B&W, but not with a monochromatic image).  I usually carry a yellow, orange and red.  Red is particularly useful for dramatic cloud and sky images, but remember to focus bracket.

 

Second, camera settings - my standard setting is DNG only and Auto-ISO.  I quite like the high ISO grain on the Monochrom images, so I set shutter for blur and aperture for depth of field, and leave the ISO to the camera.

 

Exposure I find best done for incident readings, rather than reflective.  This means carrying a light meter (if you can be bothered).  The images from the Monochrom can be really spectacular, but getting the exposure right is critical (to my mind).  I like contrast, with glossy blacks and smooth mid-tones, rather than the camera averaging everything to mid grey.  So composition is also very important - B&W photography rewards composition where the subject is separated from the background by its brightness, rather than its colour.  Many a shot loses its appeal completely because the subject was separated by its colour, rather than its B&W tone.  Ansel Adams' zone system is well worth considering in this respect - identify your deep blacks, your highlights and the zones in between and use that as your guide to composition.

 

If you're unsure, bracket, and check the histograms on the LCD (they're very good for this).

 

In processing, Silver Efex Pro is actually quite good.  You don't get the colour channels (obviously), but it's worth looking at the original "neutral" DNG file, then applying the presets and seeing what they do.  The flat neutral files actually respond really well to processing - just be careful that you don't overdo it and allow your images to become clichéd.  My standard approach is to adjust the exposure, then contrast, then reduce the highlights.  You can go further by increasing structure, but be careful - the images can become very busy and artificial looking quite quickly.

 

I hope these comments help - they are simply the way I use my Monochrom.  I don't get too excited about filters or other things like that - my main concern is composition and exposure; is there enough contrast in the scene, is the subject sufficiently isolated from the background and have I exposed for the highlights.

 

The best advice I have ever seen is think about what you want to photograph, and then think about the best place to put your camera.

 

Cheers

John

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Hi Neil,

 

I'm hoping this will help you - sorry I don't have any pictures handy (by the way, I think I prefer the second image above).

 

First up, equipment.  You have plenty of lenses, so I won't comment on lens selection.  If the lens is 50mm or longer, I use a magnifier (I hate out of focus shots and unlike Jaap, they work well for me).  It is worth thinking about filters, though not essential.  Many here suggest that a yellow filter is a good starting point, particularly for people shots.  Just remember that you are using filters to differentiate between colour channels (which you can manipulate if you're converting from B&W, but not with a monochromatic image).  I usually carry a yellow, orange and red.  Red is particularly useful for dramatic cloud and sky images, but remember to focus bracket.

 

Second, camera settings - my standard setting is DNG only and Auto-ISO.  I quite like the high ISO grain on the Monochrom images, so I set shutter for blur and aperture for depth of field, and leave the ISO to the camera.

 

Exposure I find best done for incident readings, rather than reflective.  This means carrying a light meter (if you can be bothered).  The images from the Monochrom can be really spectacular, but getting the exposure right is critical (to my mind).  I like contrast, with glossy blacks and smooth mid-tones, rather than the camera averaging everything to mid grey.  So composition is also very important - B&W photography rewards composition where the subject is separated from the background by its brightness, rather than its colour.  Many a shot loses its appeal completely because the subject was separated by its colour, rather than its B&W tone.  Ansel Adams' zone system is well worth considering in this respect - identify your deep blacks, your highlights and the zones in between and use that as your guide to composition.

 

If you're unsure, bracket, and check the histograms on the LCD (they're very good for this).

 

In processing, Silver Efex Pro is actually quite good.  You don't get the colour channels (obviously), but it's worth looking at the original "neutral" DNG file, then applying the presets and seeing what they do.  The flat neutral files actually respond really well to processing - just be careful that you don't overdo it and allow your images to become clichéd.  My standard approach is to adjust the exposure, then contrast, then reduce the highlights.  You can go further by increasing structure, but be careful - the images can become very busy and artificial looking quite quickly.

 

I hope these comments help - they are simply the way I use my Monochrom.  I don't get too excited about filters or other things like that - my main concern is composition and exposure; is there enough contrast in the scene, is the subject sufficiently isolated from the background and have I exposed for the highlights.

 

The best advice I have ever seen is think about what you want to photograph, and then think about the best place to put your camera.

 

Cheers

John

Thanks John I will remember your comments and take them into the field with me the next time I get out shooting especially the comment regarding composition ..cheers mate

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

It is critical that you not blow out the highlights (unless that is your intent).  I am not sure why Silver Efex is getting a bad rap.  I found starting with a preset is helpful.  I like Push Process ( the first of the two) and Fine Art (first of two).  There are a couple of film emulations I like.

 

Lately I do the gross adjustments in Silver Efex, and then bring the photograph back into Photoshop for dodging and burning.  I like the ability to work individually on shadows, mid tones, and highlights.  I find the adjustment brush in Silver Efex quirky.  It makes a huge difference on the pixel it gets pinned to.  The size of the adjustment circle also makes a difference in a some times quirky way.  It also matters whether there are other adjustment circles in the vicinity of the new circle.

 

Having said all that, I am on the fence on the new Monochrome.  With my Canon, I covert all the time to monochrome.  Those are nice photograph, too.  I think we photographers often see technical details that are lost on our audience.  That doesn't mean we should stop the focus on perfection, but we should recognize our madness.

 

Whatever you settle on, have fun.

Cheers Jack.

I have also found myself doing too much PP to (for example bring out some detail in the clouds) and at first the picture looks okay but after a while it looks like every other picture that has been over post processed..............I remember someone telling me before that less is more, I am starting to believe that now.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

My last one for now

Top picture as it came out of the camera. Middle after some PP. Last Histogram of the original

 

 

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[dant]

I have had 3 MM's. Sold one, settled on 2 MM's and 2 M240's. Only issue with the MM is watching the highlights from getting brunt out.

 

If you don't want to do PP forget the MM. PP is a must. But if you know how to make it work the MM produces nice film like files.

 

https://danielteolijr.wordpress.com/2015/04/25/an-example-of-composition-incorporating-signage/

[Jeff S]

I really can't wait to see the effects of these files straight out of the camera with the Yellow/Orange filter........I hope I am not disappointed….

Choosing a filter without aiming for a specific effect given the subject and colors in a particular scene…and/or exposing poorly (e.g., blown highlights)... could surely lead to a disappointing result.  

 

As always, the key tool for good b/w lies between one's ears…not just seeing in b/w, but making judgments throughout the workflow….no single way to see, nor how to get there.    That would be boring.  

 

Jeff

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Choosing a filter without aiming for a specific effect given the subject and colors in a particular scene…and/or exposing poorly (e.g., blown highlights)... could surely lead to a disappointing result.  

 

As always, the key tool for good b/w lies between one's ears…not just seeing in b/w, but making judgments throughout the workflow….no single way to see, nor how to get there.    That would be boring.  

 

Jeff

I hear what your saying Jeff but sometimes especially when out shooting street scenes you have to go with what ever you have in hand, i.e. it would be tough if you see a pretty woman coming around the corner with a fantastic backdrop and then decide to change a lens or add/remove a filter.

When i said I was looking forward to see the effects of the yellow/orange filter.............. I really am looking forward to it as I have no frigging idea what a yellow/orange filter is going to do to the picture. Once I have seen the effect myself I will be able to decide if I need it or not in whatever circumstance I find myself in.

Thanks for the tips though and if you have any pictures to add that would be great

[kkcsm]

My last one for now

Top picture as it came out of the camera. Middle after some PP. Last Histogram of the original

 

RE: Man carrying heavy pack

 

I see this frequently in my photos.  I like to stretch the histogram so that I have some nearly complete blacks and some nearly complete whites.  In pictures like this where the subject is in shadow and there's quite a lot of bright elsewhere it's challenging for me to get the look I like.  In this one I'd probably try to lighten the man's face a bit and not lighten the shadows too much.  This all would be much easier if light would cooperate and be where you want it to be.

 

On another topic: filters.  Don't expect them to be a miracle.  I find them most useful when there is some sky involved (or some blue that needs to be darkened or clouds to be accentuated).  When not seeing sky I'm not sure I'd bother (although an orange filter is also a 2-stop filter which may be helpful on bright days).  Also I'm probably more of a newbe than you; I'm curious if more experienced B&W shooters agree or disagree.

 

-K

[kkcsm]

And to wax more philisophic...  Are you getting results that *you* like?  If so, that's the "right way".  ;-)

[IkarusJohn]

I hear what your saying Jeff but sometimes especially when out shooting street scenes you have to go with what ever you have in hand, i.e. it would be tough if you see a pretty woman coming around the corner with a fantastic backdrop and then decide to change a lens or add/remove a filter.

When i said I was looking forward to see the effects of the yellow/orange filter.............. I really am looking forward to it as I have no frigging idea what a yellow/orange filter is going to do to the picture. Once I have seen the effect myself I will be able to decide if I need it or not in whatever circumstance I find myself in.

Thanks for the tips though and if you have any pictures to add that would be great

 

Try playing with the colour filters in LightRoom on your colour images - that will give you some idea.

[platypus]

Okay i recently started another thread about my somewhat displeasure with the quality of my Leica Monochrome pictures and after 6 pages plus of replies I have decided to keep my MM (I wouldn't have sold it anyway).

So I would like to ask all those that own a Leica Monochrom............... either the old one or the new one (I don't need to here from the old fogies about shooting film)....... I couldn't give a S^it about film .

I want to hear from owners of the Digital Leica Monochrom on what they do to get the best out of there digital MM whether it be in camera or PP (post processing)

A few things that I picked up in the previous thread were, the use of;

• Yellow/orange filters (ordered those already)
• Not to use SEP (Silver eFex Pro)
• Trying to see in Black and White

Anyway as always any help or tips would be much appreciated 

Yes....I do see that I am exactly the sort of person you don't want to hear from. However, as I do also own an MM I shall proceed........

Looking at your MM photographs (and I've seen a lot of them by now) you seem to have an unresolved problem with the highlights,

plus you appear to be somewhat confused as to how exactly your final screen image/print should look. So my suggestion is this:

A really great (and fun) way to learn how a b&w print should look and what can be expected from the image you have captured, (whether it

is a DNG file or from a b&w negative) would to enrol yourself in a course in basic darkroom processing and printing, it wouldn't even hurt to

get a cheap film camera, some b&w film and learn to be a "fine artist" from the bottom up. 

[Jeff S]

I hear what your saying Jeff but sometimes especially when out shooting street scenes you have to go with what ever you have in hand, i.e. it would be tough if you see a pretty woman coming around the corner with a fantastic backdrop and then decide to change a lens or add/remove a filter.

When i said I was looking forward to see the effects of the yellow/orange filter.............. I really am looking forward to it as I have no frigging idea what a yellow/orange filter is going to do to the picture. Once I have seen the effect myself I will be able to decide if I need it or not in whatever circumstance I find myself in.

Thanks for the tips though and if you have any pictures to add that would be great

I typically didn't use filters for 'street' photography in my film days (sorry), nor would I likely do so if I owned the MM.  I will be testing the MM246 at some point to compare against my M240 b/w conversions, and one of the key factors I'll have to consider is the significantly added flexibility and convenience of being able to use color channel adjustments…even multiple channels simultaneously (and even local color adjustments) in PP using the M240.  I've been spoiled with digital PP (color files) compared to my film days when carrying and choosing color filters was often beneficial.  For me, I used filters most often with medium and large format b/w, which was much more contemplative and didn't require the split second decisions you describe.

 

Having said that, there's still enormous flexibility and choice in processing MM files, even more in some regards than with other digital cams, including the M240.  I'd worry a lot less about filters (yes, I know we joke about them) and more about deciding on a 'look' (or looks) you want to achieve and figuring out a disciplined workflow to get there.  Rules like using or not using Silver Efex, for example, are far too person-specific and limiting.  The possibilities are endless….just as they always were…film or digital, M240 or MM.  Whatever works for you….not many short-cuts for the big decisions (like developing a style or choosing a software), but lots of books and video tutorials for the quick tips once the big choices are made.

 

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[platypus]

I hear what your saying Jeff but sometimes especially when out shooting street scenes you have to go with what ever you have in hand, i.e. it would be tough if you see a pretty woman coming around the corner with a fantastic backdrop and then decide to change a lens or add/remove a filter.

When i said I was looking forward to see the effects of the yellow/orange filter.............. I really am looking forward to it as I have no frigging idea what a yellow/orange filter is going to do to the picture. Once I have seen the effect myself I will be able to decide if I need it or not in whatever circumstance I find myself in.

Thanks for the tips though and if you have any pictures to add that would be great

You will find that no filter of any colour is a magic bullet, the effects are really quite subtle.