Monochrom M246 Reviews

[zlatkob]

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I've talked with a few other early testers of the M8 and they all had similar experiences. There was no grand conspiracy or cover-up. And there certainly wasn't any directive from Leica to not say anything. In fairness, though, there also wasn't a heads-up from Leica that we as testers should have been looking out for such a phenomenon. 

 

Ever since the M8 came out, I've gotten the impression that people doing early testing are friends of the company — people who are enthusiastic about Leica but are distinguished in things other than photography.  That may be good for relationship-building, but may not be the best approach to getting objective test results.  A distinguished fashion photographer will very likely detect infrared color problems because they know from years of experience how photos of people and clothing should look.  A distinguished photojournalist will describe a slow or freezing camera as a showstopper because they know from years of experience the speed that their work requires.  I don't mean any disrespect to friends of the company.  I'm just saying that people have different demands when their everyday work depends on equipment working a certain way.

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[tookaphotoof]

Would i be helpful if I put up a link to 4 low ISO DNG files?

 

 

Any chance to put links up of 2 or 3 same situation photos with both the Monochroms with the same lens?

[thighslapper]

Ever since the M8 came out, I've gotten the impression that people doing early testing are friends of the company — people who are enthusiastic about Leica but are distinguished in things other than photography.  That may be good for relationship-building, but may not be the best approach to getting objective test results.  A distinguished fashion photographer will very likely detect infrared color problems because they know from years of experience how photos of people and clothing should look.  A distinguished photojournalist will describe a slow or freezing camera as a showstopper because they know from years of experience the speed that their work requires.  I don't mean any disrespect to friends of the company.  I'm just saying that people have different demands when their everyday work depends on equipment working a certain way.

 

oh dear ...... this is a rather inflammatory statement...... so Jono is a crap photographer and Leica lapdog .... ?? 

 

and I suppose me and my fellow beta firmware testers (for the 240) are specifically chosen idiots who grovel at the feet of Leica management.......

 

I think the truth is very far from what you suppose. As we are all bound by confidentiality agreements you are never going to know ...... but I can assure you we were very thorough and gave them a hard time where it was due ...

[dkCambridgeshire]

Ever since the M8 came out, I've gotten the impression that people doing early testing are friends of the company — people who are enthusiastic about Leica but are distinguished in things other than photography.  That may be good for relationship-building, but may not be the best approach to getting objective test results.  A distinguished fashion photographer will very likely detect infrared color problems because they know from years of experience how photos of people and clothing should look.  A distinguished photojournalist will describe a slow or freezing camera as a showstopper because they know from years of experience the speed that their work requires.  I don't mean any disrespect to friends of the company.  I'm just saying that people have different demands when their everyday work depends on equipment working a certain way.

 

How many 'distinguished' fashion photographers use rangefinder cameras? I can think of just two UK based well known photojournalists who use rangefinders - whether they or any other photojournalist or fashion photographer would have the inclination, patience and the time to test a new rangefinder camera over maybe 6 months in the course of their normal work is doubtful - and they would probably only consider same if paid a professional fee so as not to compromise their normal professional earnings potential. 

 

dunk

[zlatkob]

oh dear ...... this is a rather inflammatory statement...... so Jono is a crap photographer and Leica lapdog .... ?? 

 

and I suppose me and my fellow beta firmware testers (for the 240) are specifically chosen idiots who grovel at the feet of Leica management.......

 

I think the truth is very far from what you suppose. As we are all bound by confidentiality agreements you are never going to know ...... but I can assure you we were very thorough and gave them a hard time where it was due ...

 

You've thoroughly misrepresented what I wrote, choosing to make it very inflammatory.  Jono's photos are excellent and no one is a "lapdog".  My point was about having testers who actually use a product for their everyday work.  That could help to avoid a replay of something like the M8 infrared issue mentioned above — somehow bizarrely missed.  I hope the truth is far from what I suppose, but I frankly don't understand how testers could have missed that issue.

 

How many 'distinguished' fashion photographers use rangefinder cameras? I can think of just two UK based well known photojournalists who use rangefinders - whether they or any other photojournalist or fashion photographer would have the inclination, patience and the time to test a new rangefinder camera over maybe 6 months in the course of their normal work is doubtful - and they would probably only consider same if paid a professional fee so as not to compromise their normal professional earnings potential. 

 

dunk

 

I don't know how many distinguished fashion photographers use RF cameras, but you can likely find some featured on the Leica blog and in Leica videos.  For one, there's Pedro Ferreira in Portugal (featured in a Leica video) who is probably very discerning about color in his work.  And there are distinguished photojournalists all over the world, not just in the UK.  It wouldn't take even near 6 months.

[thighslapper]

You've thoroughly misrepresented what I wrote, choosing to make it very inflammatory.  

 

....... just throwing another log on the fire ....... 

 

... you started it 

Edited May 6, 2015 by thighslapper

[jonoslack]

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You've thoroughly misrepresented what I wrote, choosing to make it very inflammatory.  Jono's photos are excellent and no one is a "lapdog".  My point was about having testers who actually use a product for their everyday work.  That could help to avoid a replay of something like the M8 infrared issue mentioned above — somehow bizarrely missed.  I hope the truth is far from what I suppose, but I frankly don't understand how testers could have missed that issue.

 

 

I don't know how many distinguished fashion photographers use RF cameras, but you can likely find some featured on the Leica blog and in Leica videos.  For one, there's Pedro Ferreira in Portugal (featured in a Leica video) who is probably very discerning about color in his work.  And there are distinguished photojournalists all over the world, not just in the UK.  It wouldn't take even near 6 months.

I'm everybody's LapDog and thank you for the compliment. You should understand that my job is to find "gotchas" and tell Leica about them ( that's the job of a field tester)

I think it's tough to find a dedicated professional to put in the time required to do this (they need to earn a living, and shooting full time with a camera when you may never be able to use the shots is a BIG ask! ).

 

Distinguished photojournalists have better things to do with their time than to mess about with prototype cameras - and even if you pay them the going rate, the fact that they're great photographers doesn't mean that they're great at observing what's going on. They're likely to have a very well established way of working, which isn't a good recipe  for finding things wrong.

 

Clearly the IR issue was the gotcha to end all gotchas, ........ And if the field testers do their job properly then they seem pointless. It's one of the downsides of the job! 

Edited May 6, 2015 by jonoslack

[jonoslack]

Any chance to put links up of 2 or 3 same situation photos with both the Monochroms with the same lens?

I'll get some files up tomorrow. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by jonoslack

[Lenshacker]

The cover glass corrosion issue of the M9 and M Monochrom- worse than the M8. I, and I am sure Leica, wishes that they had use the highly durable cover glass of the M8 on the M Monochrom.

 

Personally, I wish they had used clear non-IR absorbing glass on the M9 and M Monochrom. I like IR. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by Lenshacker

[BerndReini]

 

 

I don't know how many distinguished fashion photographers use RF cameras, but you can likely find some featured on the Leica blog and in Leica videos.  For one, there's Pedro Ferreira in Portugal (featured in a Leica video) who is probably very discerning about color in his work.  And there are distinguished photojournalists all over the world, not just in the UK.  It wouldn't take even near 6 months.

While I agree that a fashion photographer would have noticed the IR issues of the M8, it still would make absolutely no sense at hall having a fashion photographer test the M system because it is clearly not designed for that. Now the S-system is the camera that was tested by fashion photographers and rightfully so. Also, I find that Jacob AuSobol (last MM) and Ragnar Axelson were great choices for shooting the promotion pictures for the Monochrom series. Further on, a lot of photojournalists these days have to shoot many frames peers second and in most cases even video because the industry has changed so much, also to a point where most of them couldn't afford an M system even if they wanted to. Yet there are still many great photographers that shoot journalistic material with M cameras like Alex Webb, Eli Reed etc. most of them don't test cameras and they don't care about it either. Vice versa, the typical Leica customer really doesn't care what most fashion photographers like in a camera.

[zlatkob]

While I agree that a fashion photographer would have noticed the IR issues of the M8, it still would make absolutely no sense at hall having a fashion photographer test the M system because it is clearly not designed for that. Now the S-system is the camera that was tested by fashion photographers and rightfully so. Also, I find that Jacob AuSobol (last MM) and Ragnar Axelson were great choices for shooting the promotion pictures for the Monochrom series. Further on, a lot of photojournalists these days have to shoot many frames peers second and in most cases even video because the industry has changed so much, also to a point where most of them couldn't afford an M system even if they wanted to. Yet there are still many great photographers that shoot journalistic material with M cameras like Alex Webb, Eli Reed etc. most of them don't test cameras and they don't care about it either. Vice versa, the typical Leica customer really doesn't care what most fashion photographers like in a camera.

 

No sense?  I think it makes at least as much sense as having a fashion photographer featured in the video about the 50mm Apo Summicron-M.  My point wasn't about what fashion photographers "like in a camera" but about having testers who are very discerning due to many years of day-to-day work as photographers.  They're more likely to detect camera issues that would inhibit use for a book or magazine, an advertisement, a documentary, a photographic competition, etc., than someone whose is distinguished in something other than photography.  I'm thinking about who is likely to ask better questions.  

 

Your point about distinquished photojournalists not "caring" and Jono's point about them "having better things to do" is probably correct for some of them some of the time.  But the world is big, and photojournalists aren't all of one mind or one fully-booked work schedule.  I suspect that some of them do care, and some of them do have the time and would consider it time well-spent.  They at least have a self-interest in seeing that equipment works for them.  

 

Ansel Adams was a very distinguished landscape photographer and yet, according to Smithsonianmag.com: "He served as a longtime consultant for both Eastman Kodak and Polaroid, and the quest for true and reliable color obsessed both companies for decades."  The bio on his web site indicates he also consulted for Hasselblad.  Now I'm not certain that being a consultant meant being a tester, but it would make sense.

[jaapv]

I do understand why the betatesters "missed" the IR issue on the M8. They were shooting prototype cameras with prototype firmware, knowing things like colour balance etc. still had to be finalized. I am sure that the matter was reported to Leica in due course. The hiccup was that somebody at Leica underestimated the impact of the matter - remember there were very few complaints about a similar (albeit not as severe) IR sensitivity on for instance the RD1.

  That could help to avoid a replay of something like the M8 infrared issue mentioned above — somehow bizarrely missed.  I hope the truth is far from what I suppose, but I frankly don't understand how testers could have missed that issue.

 

This was the first digital M Leica ever designed. There were a myriad new challenges and decisions to be made. Four things were missed: the green blobs, the beam-me-up-Scotty rainbow and the banding - and the IR colour shift. Three were resolved quickly and efficiently, the IR issue should have been solved in marketing when the camera hit the shops: "We have always emphasized the problems associated with digitalizing an RF camera. There may be some colour shift in rare shooting conditions due to inevitable sensitivity for a small percentage of IR light. We advise the use of an IR cut filter in such conditions, and we will provide two with the camera on request" and the problem would have been non-existent...

 

I think it is time to stop allocating massive amounts of blame in a matter, which is after all, ancient history.

[jonoslack]

DNG files:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3808779/dng_iso.zip

and some more;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3808779/LowIsoMonochrom246.zip

 

Sorry - they're hardly masterpieces, but hopefully you can get something from them.

I'll post some better ones when I can get organised.

 

Enjoy

[picboy]

i think most distinquished fashion shooters have so many factors going on that adding an M to the mix would be a challenge.  photojournalists might be more prone to use them--for specific assignments.  however few could afford them and I doubt their publishers would provide them.  for my assignment work I stick to my 1Dx's--you can beat them up and they keep working.  Plus, I need the super fast auto focus.  But I would take my M240 (new safari model just added!) on trips--very small to carry two bodies and the 3 lenses I need.   if there are problems with the files--it is more likely my editors would catch it than me, especially if I am on deadline.  therefore, i think the product testers are much more reliable sources to find any issues with the new cameras--i depend on them.

[wolfloid]

I'd also like to add that I'm grateful for the intitial reviews, as they are all extra data which we can assess for ourselves. Jono's, especially, was succinct and to the point. What I find I would still like some feedback on though, is how effective is focussing the longer lenses wide open at these increased resolutions? Given that the new Monochrom has even greater resolving power than either the MM9 or the M240 does this 'extra' resolution actually show up when using the 90 Summicron wide-open, or when using the 135 lenses wide open, or are the limitations of the rangefinder base beginning to show?

[tookaphotoof]

I use a 135mm wide open on the M240. I can get tack sharp images, even with my dog running towards me. I have no doubt the 246 would be less effective in the focussing department. 

 

Thanks Jono for posting the files. This will help me a lot more than having permission to shoot one or two photos inside the camera store. Strange sometimes, how easy it is test-driving a car of 1.000 or 100.000 euro before you decide if it's something you want to buy. 

Yet, a 7.000+ camera, most of us will have to decide on without being able to take it out for a day, and to take some files home to play with. 

[Lenshacker]

The DNG files from the M246 look great.

 

12-bit depth vs 14-bit depth, fixed-pattern noise, Gaussian-noise: this is for engineers to characterize.

 

Professional photographers should evaluate whether the camera suits their photographic needs, did the engineers get the camera good-enough. The group of photographers chosen to evaluate this camera state that "yes, they did" and I believe them looking at the results.

 

I like the original M Monochrom, M9, and M8 because it gives me a raw sensor output, as "raw" as any camera can deliver. But I'm an engineer that worked on this stuff when it was in its infancy.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Lenshacker

[Mike Rawcs]

 I'm hoping that at some point in the future, someone develops a sensor that can gradually roll off highlights the way film did. The MM already does a pretty good job with the highlight transition, and as you said "programming" the camera to automatically underexpose would still not be sufficient in all circumstances and definitely lead to a loss in tonality in low contrast scenes.

 

Thank you, that helps a lot. That the MM 'already does a pretty good job' is particularly helpful as many reviews mention the need to be careful that highlight areas a not clipped. It is mentioned so often that it sounds like a real problem instead of something to be aware of but not a major issue.

 

Mike.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wolfloid]

I use a 135mm wide open on the M240. I can get tack sharp images, even with my dog running towards me. I have no doubt the 246 would be less effective in the focussing department. 

 

Amazing! Is that while running backwards at the same speed as well?

[Jeff S]

The DNG files from the M246 look great.

 

12-bit depth vs 14-bit depth, fixed-pattern noise, Gaussian-noise: this is for engineers to characterize.

 

Professional photographers should evaluate whether the camera suits their photographic needs, did the engineers get the camera good-enough. The group of photographers chosen to evaluate this camera state that "yes, they did" and I believe them looking at the results.

 

 

Exactly.

 

No offense meant, but this resonates more with me than your many other 'engineer-oriented' posts on various topics.  

 

For any gear assessment, I like to make my own judgments based on my own print results using my images and my workflow.  It either works for me or not…the rest doesn't much matter, technically accurate or not.

 

Jeff