zlatkob Posted February 26, 2015 Share #101 Posted February 26, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I find it curious that many here seem unable to recognise the degree of artifice involved here, unable to recognise how, with this product, Leica is effectively mocking it's own customers. Yes, there's a high degree of artifice. Not hard to recognize at all. But I don't see the mocking aspect. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I imagine two types of buyers. One is the collector, as you describe, who won't use it. They'll have an unusual camera for their collection. The other is someone who is very wealthy and won't hesitate to use it and brass it further. For that buyer, it is just one more beautiful camera to use, and the special edition price makes no difference at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Hi zlatkob, Take a look here Lenny Kravitz Edition - cool, pretentious, or hoax?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted February 26, 2015 Share #102 Posted February 26, 2015 My Land Rover's looking a bit brassed and rough round the edges but for some unknown reason the dealer isn't prepared to offer me a premium for it. My car is now 14 years old and to my knowledge its never been washed during that time. That said the paintwork still looks remarkably good and I'm sure that if I could be bothered to break my 14 year habit of not actually washing it, then it would come up looking quite good again. I must be doing something wrong. Black paint cameras probably need a couple of hours in a lapidary tumber to clean the edges down to metal I'd guess. Speed patina anyone? Not to my taste in the slightest. Mind you I do have a black chrome M4 with patina - well actually I just think its been dropped once too often - suspicion is that rather than having been some famous photographer's tool, it was actually a cruise ship camera and shows the consequences of hard usage by lots of different people..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2015 Share #103 Posted February 26, 2015 I notice quite a few posters here have less of a sense of humour than Leica.... I think this camera is fun. I would buy and use it if I could afford the money spillage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 26, 2015 Share #104 Posted February 26, 2015 Rick, I agree with you on the Lenny M special edition, but these comments about Mike/TOP and his readers are undeserved and way over the top. Reasonable (and non-hateful) people can and do disagree about this camera. Although I disagree with Mike on this topic, his site is a unique place for writing about photography and very diverse opinions are expressed there. Anyone can comment there, and there's no such thing as being "part of the TOP group" where you're told how to think. You must have missed the post whereI said, "In fairness (to Mike) he does have some good writing now and again. But, I don't understand the Lenny bashing." - from post #94 I do agree with Jeff that the TOP site is not someplace I visit often anymore for various reasons and like Jeff, I believe it should just be left at that. Anyway, it is always nice when we agree on something, I respect your unique perspective that you add to subjects being discussed here. I often start out disagreeing with your POV and end up finding it right on. Has happened to me many times over the years. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 26, 2015 Share #105 Posted February 26, 2015 I notice quite a few posters here have less of a sense of humour than Leica....I think this camera is fun. I would buy and use it if I could afford the money spillage. No surprise...I remember your sense of 'fun' regarding camera aesthetics. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 26, 2015 Share #106 Posted February 26, 2015 I notice quite a few posters here have less of a sense of humour than Leica....I think this camera is fun. I would buy and use it if I could afford the money spillage. Maybe, you could post some of your more "fun" camera coverings throughout the years? Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 26, 2015 Share #107 Posted February 26, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe, you could post some of your more "fun" camera coverings throughout the years? Post 106. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 26, 2015 Share #108 Posted February 26, 2015 I think this camera is fun. I think this thread is fun - in a slightly weird sort of a way that is. But if this camera makes Leica money and keeps them producing cameras and lenses then fine:D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 26, 2015 Share #109 Posted February 26, 2015 I notice quite a few posters here have less of a sense of humour than Leica....I think this camera is fun. I would buy and use it if I could afford the money spillage. I think the design is very nice eccept for the "patina scratches". if it was black "as new", it would be a great set and I would really like to buy it. I hope the new Monochrom has this appearance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 26, 2015 Share #110 Posted February 26, 2015 Sorry, I think this camera is a dumb idea. I'm not mocking Lenny Kravits or Leica, I just think it's dumb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2015 Share #111 Posted February 26, 2015 111 posts? It is a marketing succes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2015 Share #112 Posted February 26, 2015 Post 106. Jeff Das war einmal.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 27, 2015 Share #113 Posted February 27, 2015 Das war einmal.... I know….you wimped out and went grey. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2015 Share #114 Posted February 27, 2015 At the moment it is naked in Wetzlar. Grey is so last week.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bedford Posted February 27, 2015 Share #115 Posted February 27, 2015 We all know how expensive normal Leica cameras are so who are we kidding about this edition (and all the others)? My camera and lens costs almost as much as my car... and I'm not a wealthy person. Some people go wide eyed at the cost if I bother mentioning it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 27, 2015 Share #116 Posted February 27, 2015 Sorry, I think this camera is a dumb idea. I'm not mocking Lenny Kravits or Leica, I just think it's dumb. Interesting comment from someone who just bought the special edition M60, basically a pretty M240 without a screen (and heavier steel with no strap lugs), at a premium (compared to standard M + lens) equal to the cost of a brand new Monochrom. Doesn't matter to me what floats someone's boat, but I would have thought you'd have a more generous and less judgmental view on unusual Leica offerings. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 27, 2015 Share #117 Posted February 27, 2015 Interesting comment from someone who just bought the special edition M60, basically a pretty M240 without a screen (and heavier steel with no strap lugs), at a premium (compared to standard M + lens) equal to the cost of a brand new Monochrom. Doesn't matter to me what floats someone's boat, but I would have thought you'd have a more generous and less judgmental view on unusual Leica offerings. Jeff I was waiting for you to say something like that. Oh, where to start? Perhaps best just to make two points: (1) there is a difference between the functional changes made for the M60 and purely cosmetic presentation of artificially ageing a black M(240). (2) who's being judgmental? I'm just expressing an opinion. I am allowed to express an opinion, surely? Now, it may be that you can't reconcile why I might think an M(240) without JPGs, video or an LCD screen is a great idea and a perfectly good black paint M(240) with no functional changes, but the paint rubbed off it, is a dumb idea, but I thought we'd already established that in the other thread. You don't understand why anyone (okay, me) would buy an M60. We get it. You can't (don't want to) concede that one might be a good idea and the other not so good. More critically, it raises an issue that really really bothers you - I bought an M60, I like it, and I use it. But you see, sometimes these things can't be sensibly reduced to zero sum analysis - here's a guy who paid a huge premium for a runout model because it has less functionality, so he MUST think all special editions are good. Well, roll me over and roger me stupid! The fact is, I'm absolutely delighted about my new camera. I really couldn't be happier. Meanwhile, you don't seem to be able to work out why ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winedemonium Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share #118 Posted February 27, 2015 I like to buy dark blue jeans. I like them when they are new and unmarked, and I like the way they wear in, even though they wear with a rectangle imprint on one front pocket and a square imprint on the other. The knees don't wear at all, and the thighs very little. Usually the pocket linings get holes and my change falls down my legs and into a shoe or onto the street. And usually around that time instead of getting the pocket linings repaired, I biff them out or consign them to "painting" (which I never do, so they just become clutter). As I type this I'm sitting in a pair of "pre-worn" jeans. They are of such a ubiquitous type that I don't even blink at the apparent artifice. After all, these are "pre-worn" in a way that a guy who spends a lot of time sitting in an office would never wear them. They are worn in a way that suggests a lot of manual work. It is, when I think about it, a total pretence. But I don't feel uncomfortable actually. They are a completely normal clothing item. As far as I am aware this is the first "pre-worn" camera to market, but one that follows - as many have alluded in this thread - to the well known "pre-worn" vintage look electric guitars from Gibson (so many Les Pauls like this) and Fender (who even wear and scratch them to copy exactly famous player's actual instruments). It's the same pretence on another level. But I think we should just get over that. When I look now at the detailed photos that have now appeared (at Rumours for example), I think the camera looks pretty cool. I especially like the idea of a black paint old type Summilux with the new type ASPH innards. Personally I wouldn't want this set though (money aside). I don't mind wear and scratches (and brassing), but I want that to be my damage. So, there are two things I don't like to my taste about the Lenny Kravitz 'brassing' - 1. I prefer the idea of a shiny new camera, and letting it wear and age the normal way. Brassing can look nice, but it is not something I'm seeking deliberately, and I might just as easily consider having the thing repainted anyway. Brassing, to me, isn't a 'goal'. 2. The actual 'brassing' on the Lenny Kravitz edition is so stylised it looks fake to anyone who has ever actually looked, held or owned a black paint Leica that has brassed the normal way. Note that there are no minor scratches anywhere, that the brassing is heavy in areas where this never really takes place, and that it is way too even along the edges. Fake, fake, fake! Just like the jeans I am wearing today. I don't begrudge Leica making this, and I don't begrudge anyone who will fork out the money to own it. I hope the new owners get a lot of pleasure out of using it, or even just fondling it occasionally if that's their thing. Why we would want to deny someone's pleasure when no harm is done to us, is beyond me. It's mean spirited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted February 27, 2015 Share #119 Posted February 27, 2015 I would imagine a touch of jealousy from some.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 27, 2015 Share #120 Posted February 27, 2015 You don't understand why anyone (okay, me) would buy an M60. Lots of presumptions, hardly any of which I said. People buy cameras for myriad reasons. Unique cameras generate questions and comments….no surprise. I also never said you have to like all special editions. Calling a camera 'dumb' (meaning a dumb idea to buy) is quite different IMO than just saying it's not your cup of tea. I call that judgmental, and not an opinion you'd directly offer to an owner. I never characterized your purchase as such, and frankly don't care what you or others own. On the other hand, unboxing threads….and white gloves? Yes, I'm guilty of mocking those. Camera gear? To each his own. If you recall, early in your thread I wrote that I hope you loosen up (take more pics, since you said you weren't doing so) and get many years of enjoyment from your choice. Still do. You seem offended that I observed that your camera is essentially an M240, and that I further asked questions about its practical utility for you….straps, color control, etc. Instead of just answering, you seem to have taken it as a personal challenge and drawn far too many personal conclusions. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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