IkarusJohn Posted March 2, 2015 Share #181 Posted March 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) So $7000+ premium for the M60 is "relatively modest" in your view, and $10,000 for the Kravitz is "huge". Edition distinctions aside, this reinforces what I wrote earlier, i.e., value is determined by the buyer's preferences and judgment….one likes it enough, and money isn't a big deal; one doesn't, and money speaks. Only the buyer can decide. My guess is that Leica will find a sufficient number who decide it's worth it….as usual. I wonder if any special edition has ever failed to sell out. Whether specific special edition "features" are ever incorporated into production versions is another issue. Jeff Who paid a $7,000 premium? From the B&H pricing, I paid less than half that premium for a camera with different functionality. A different functionality that actually made for a different camera. A camera that I think I've said in the past that I actually want. Added bonus, it is made from stainless steel. I agree - each to his own, but the M60 is a whole lot more than a standard M(240), and was about $8,000 cheaper than the LK distressed edition. I'm not quite sure what's driving your crusade to establish that my views on the LK camera are inconsistent with my purchase of the M60, but you're going to have to do better than what you've said so far. I love the idea I'd an old camera being used and repaired and repaired until it is dead. Making a new camera look like its on its last legs, not so much. Paying $10,000 premium because it is someone else's dream is just odd. Yep, my opinion. Others want to buy it? I won't understand, just like Jeff really seems to have a bee is his bonnet over my M60. I can rationalise the difference - a reasonable premium for what is actually a different camera made in small numbers. I would prefer it if it had been a production camera at normal prices, but I don't think it will be I think we've had this conversation before. Maybe time to let it go, Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here Lenny Kravitz Edition - cool, pretentious, or hoax? . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted March 2, 2015 Share #182 Posted March 2, 2015 Who paid a $7,000 premium? You wrote $18,500 cost in your other thread. That's $7100 more than the cost of a standard M240 and 35 Summilux ASPH lens at current discounted B&H rates. You're the one who raised the issue of modest versus huge premiums for the M60 special edition and the Kravitz special edition, not me. I let the buyer decide. You can't find a single post where I made a value judgment of your purchase, only the absolute cost. But you keep missing that. Stop taking this personally, and recognize that I only used your prior posts to articulate a far more general point about assessing value for these special editions….eye of the beholder. I was in no way saying your views on these editions are inconsistent….to the contrary…you proved my point that each person gets to decide based on his/her needs and preferences…that's all. And I used your differing values of the 2 editions to illustrate the point. Period. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 2, 2015 Share #183 Posted March 2, 2015 You wrote $18,500 cost in your other thread. That's $7100 more than the cost of a standard M240 and 35 Summilux ASPH lens at current discounted B&H rates. That was the original B&H price - not what I paid. You're the one who raised the issue of modest versus huge premiums for the M60 special edition and the Kravitz special edition, not me. I'd call a $3,000 premium for an M60 modest. I let the buyer decide. You can't find a single post where I made a value judgment of your purchase, only the absolute cost. But you keep missing that. Stop taking this personally, and recognize that I only used your prior posts to articulate a far more general point about assessing value for these special editions….eye of the beholder. Of course I'm taking it personally - you keep raising my M60 purchase as if it's relevant to my opinion of the LK camera. However, you seem to assume that I'm annoyed, angry or particularly bothered. I'm not - I'm simply responding to your posts, and wondering why you keep posting on the issue. I was in no way saying your views on these editions are inconsistent….to the contrary…you proved my point that each person gets to decide based on his/her needs and preferences…that's all. And I used your differing values of the 2 editions to illustrate the point. Period. You do keep using the differing values, and wrongly so. I'm just (consistently) pointing out that you have the values wrong, my opinion wrong and just about everything else about your comparison of my purchase to this camera wrong. Excuse me for being blunt, but it seems I need to be. Don't misunderstand my persistence for anything more than what it is. I have always stated (you must have missed it) that if someone wants to buy this camera, go for it. But I think it's a dumb idea. "Period" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 2, 2015 Share #184 Posted March 2, 2015 You could have saved a lot of posts by citing the $3000 premium when I first estimated…weeks ago... the premium being equal to the cost of an MM….and even repeated earlier in this thread. I do think you got a much better deal in that case, given your desires. But that still wouldn't have changed my comments above, since those were never about the 'rightness' or 'wrongness' of your opinion…only that you're a good example of how views on special editions can vary. As for the rest, you still think I have an axe to grind, which is not the case. Your opinion is your opinion, and I've done nothing to say otherwise. The only disagreement was my initial reaction to the term 'dumb' as it applied to folks who buy anything….but you've since clarified. Other than that, I have no argument with you. One wouldn't know that from your repeated comments. I guess if you think I'm attacking you or your purchase, then you filter everything I write with a skewed view. So far everything you said I was wrong about, I didn't say, or think. Sorry to others for anything OT. My posts in this thread were meant to build on the discussion about how different readers assess the merits….and costs…of Leica special editions. And your comments seemed a perfect example, since you happen to have bought one and not another, and offered a value assessment on both. No judgment on my part. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 2, 2015 Share #185 Posted March 2, 2015 Dialogue of the deaf, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 2, 2015 Share #186 Posted March 2, 2015 That's the problem…you've been reading with your ears. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted March 3, 2015 Share #187 Posted March 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am still waiting for a Hello Kitty version of the M(type 240) like this M6 (which was a hoax). Why, maybe because it would make me happy, just for the heck of it. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240986-lenny-kravitz-edition-cool-pretentious-or-hoax/?do=findComment&comment=2773755'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 3, 2015 Share #188 Posted March 3, 2015 I am still waiting for a Hello Kitty version ..... How about a Banksie Leica - for street art photography;)? Actually there's no end to possibilities and whoever thought up the LK version is a marketing or publicity genius for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 3, 2015 Share #189 Posted March 3, 2015 whoever thought up the LK version is a marketing or publicity genius for sure. Not really. Lenny Kravitz, being a not quite-hip, not especially edgy musician and appealing to the 40+ demographic, is a fairly predictable celebrity for Leica to associate with. It is the Leica marketing department's attempt to counter the Bruckner type special editions of the previous management but without going too counter culture – i.e. safe without going as safe as Jamie Cullum or Bryan Adams (both favourites of the previous Leica regime). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 3, 2015 Share #190 Posted March 3, 2015 Not really. Lenny Kravitz, being a not quite-hip, not especially edgy musician and appealing to the 40+ demographic, is a fairly predictable celebrity for Leica to associate with. It is the Leica marketing department's attempt to counter the Bruckner type special editions of the previous management but without going too counter culture – i.e. safe without going as safe as Jamie Cullum or Bryan Adams (both favourites of the previous Leica regime). I've got a couple of Mr Kravitz's albums, but they're from when he first really made it, I'm not familiar with any of his more recent work tbh. I'd actually say Jamie Cullum and Bryan Admas are more 'edgy' with what they're currently doing! Bryan Adams recently had an interesting exhibition/book Bryan Adams' heartstopping images of wounded British soldiers to go on show at Somerset House - Home News - UK - The Independent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 3, 2015 Share #191 Posted March 3, 2015 Not really. Lenny Kravitz, being a not quite-hip, not especially edgy musician and appealing to the 40+ demographic, is a fairly predictable celebrity for Leica to associate with. It is the Leica marketing department's attempt to counter the Bruckner type special editions ..... I would say that Bruckner (1996) was pre-internet and we live in a different world. The LK has created a lot of (positive and negative) web interest which has pushed Leica's name. Predictable - perhaps, effective marketing - yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 3, 2015 Share #192 Posted March 3, 2015 I would say that Bruckner (1996) was pre-internet and we live in a different world. The LK has created a lot of (positive and negative) web interest which has pushed Leica's name. Predictable - perhaps, effective marketing - yes. Now you are just being pedantic – I wrote about a "Bruckner type" special edition, I wasn't referring to one in particular. You know exactly what I mean. Yes, the LK edition has created a fair amount of web interest (largely within the existing customer base) but a lot less interest than the recent M60 (another 'marmite' product). In what way is this "effective marketing"? Are Lenny Kravitz fans buying Leica products? Are Leica customers buying anything they wouldn't otherwise be buying? Ok, the special edition may pull in a million or so in revenue but I don't see what it really does in terms of encouraging anyone to buy the regular products, which is the real business Leica are in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 3, 2015 Share #193 Posted March 3, 2015 Now you are just being pedantic.....Ok, the special edition may pull in a million or so in revenue but I don't see what it really does in terms of encouraging anyone to buy the regular products, which is the real business Leica are in. Pedantic perhaps but I don't really think so. The M60 really didn't impinge on me whereas the LK has. Such editions must be immensely profitable (not a lot of extra work for a good premium) and its about keeping the 'name' out there too. I agree 'marmite' but some will buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMaber Posted March 3, 2015 Share #194 Posted March 3, 2015 Not really. Lenny Kravitz, being a not quite-hip, not especially edgy musician and appealing to the 40+ demographic, is a fairly predictable celebrity for Leica to associate with. It is the Leica marketing department's attempt to counter the Bruckner type special editions of the previous management but without going too counter culture – i.e. safe without going as safe as Jamie Cullum or Bryan Adams (both favourites of the previous Leica regime). hahah indeed, he's just so very mediocre. I've got a couple of Mr Kravitz's albums, but they're from when he first really made it, I'm not familiar with any of his more recent work tbh. I suspect a lot of people are "not familiar with any of his more recent work" haha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 3, 2015 Share #195 Posted March 3, 2015 Now if Leica produced a Marmite engraved special edition, I might be truly interested! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 3, 2015 Share #196 Posted March 3, 2015 I suspect a lot of people are "not familiar with any of his more recent work" haha Actually, I'm not familiar with any of his work (or perhaps don't know its his) which is why I'm impressed by the PR its got;). Marmite edition - no way for me:eek:. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMaber Posted March 3, 2015 Share #197 Posted March 3, 2015 Actually, I'm not familiar with any of his work (or perhaps don't know its his) which is why I'm impressed by the PR its got;). Marmite edition - no way for me:eek:. Has it got much PR outside of Leica fanatics on internet forums? I think you'd get a very confused look if you mentioned it to anyone on the street. He had that song when he first came out that sounded extremely similar to a Hendrix song, he clearly modelld himself on Hendrix visually and why listen to a clone? Not paid much attention since then I guess his songs pop up but i thought he was pretty much an irrelevance. mAybe he's particularly popular in the the rock-light-pop world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 3, 2015 Share #198 Posted March 3, 2015 He's probably most famous for his Who cover used as a theme song for the TV programme CSI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 3, 2015 Share #199 Posted March 3, 2015 Hi Matt, I am not sure why the repeated hateful opinion posting about Lenny. It is ok to have an opinion, but three posts full of vitriol makes me wonder what sort of falling-out you and Lenny had? Here is what you have written in this thread so far: Dismissing him as, "pop light," "pretty much irrelevant," "Jimmy Hendrix clone," "average and unremarkable music," "mediocre guitarist," "mediocre photographer,"minor celeb," "he's really nothing special," "he's a below grad d 'celeb," "largely copied Hendrix's chops," and finally, "could give a shit about this." You might want to do a little fact checking. Here is the wiki on Lenny Kravitz and I think it will surprise you (or anyone else) to discover Lenny in a little more depth as opposed to what you are painting him as in your three ranting posts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Kravitz All I can say is that he has more creative and artistic talent than myself based on listening to his music and looking at his photography. I'm surprised you aren't happy to consider him a fellow Leica shooter. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted March 3, 2015 Share #200 Posted March 3, 2015 Probably just a bit annoyed Leica preffered a Lenny edition above a MattMaber edition... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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