M9reno Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #21 Â Posted January 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Probably the best solution. I never saw this vignetting with the R tube. Â Is the R tube sold separately? And if so, does it have a part number? Â Many thanks! Al Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Hi M9reno, Take a look here Telyt 400mm f/6.8: What I am doing wrong???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
M9reno Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #22 Â Posted January 20, 2015 I've never seen it with the V tube, not on a Visoflex, not with the 14167 and adapted to R and EOS. Maybe there were changes made during production and later lenses aren't affected?? Â Interesting. Mine is s.n. 2862527, in case you want compare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 20, 2015 Share #23 Â Posted January 20, 2015 Is the R tube sold separately? Â Not often, you'll need to watch ebay for it. Â Interesting. Mine is s.n. 2862527, in case you want compare. Â s/n is not a reliable test of the tube's age because an older lens may be combined with a newer tube and vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #24 Â Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks, Doug. I'll keep looking at eBay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 20, 2015 Share #25 Â Posted January 20, 2015 Ok I solved the mystery. The culprit is the current Leica R-to-M adapter. I realized that I had never used the Leica adapter with the Telyt, only the Novoflex (the lens has it's own tripod foot). So tonight I put the Leica adapter on the Telyt and sure enough it vignetted just like in those photos. Taking a close look at both adatpers, I found there is black ring (light baffle) around the inside of the chrome rear flange. It's about 1mm thick, apparently just enough to cause the vignetting. My Novoflex adapter doesn't have that, as the entire flange is anodized black inside and out. Â It might be easier and less hassle to try another brand adapter than trading your Viso lens for one with an R tube. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2015 Share #26 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Could you please show us a couple of images demonstrating the difference? TIA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 21, 2015 Share #27 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The images with the Leica adapter look like the OP's. The images with the Novoflex look like...well, regular images with no vignetting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share #28 Â Posted January 21, 2015 And if so, does it have a part number? Â To answer my own question: part 11906. There's one on eBay now for US$400 - only the tube - which seems absurd to me (it's coming close to the price of the whole lens). Â I'm not sure the (sole) culprit is the R-M adapter. Remember, the first shot above was on Viso III. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2015 Share #29 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Here are some suggestions how to turn a Telyt-V into a Telyt-R http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/122898-leitz-14167-leica-m-r-lens.html Please ignore as you already tried that. Â I could try both a Telyt-V + 14127 and a real Telyt-R with my A7R + R-E adapter and see whether there is a difference. Â More info. Â http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/123797-one-more-400-560mm-f-6-a.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share #30 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Here are some suggestions how to turn a Telyt-V into a Telyt-R http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/122898-leitz-14167-leica-m-r-lens.htmlPlease ignore if you already tried that. Â I could try both a Telyt-V + 14127 and a real Telyt-R with my A7R + R-E adapter and see whether there is a difference. Â Hi K-H, Thanks for the reference to the other thread. In fact, my R-M adapter set-up already includes adapter 14167 (i.e. Viso - R adapter). In theory this should make the 400mm V into a 400m R, without any effect on the image corners, but perhaps the dedicated R tube would make a difference (though I won't pay US$400 to find out...). Â If you could try to compare both of your lenses that would be brilliant, thanks. Otherwise, I think I might simply learn to live with the vignetting, shooting wide and cropping where necessary, especially since the corners of images taken with these lenses is never sharp to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2015 Share #31  Posted January 21, 2015 Hi K-H, Thanks for the reference to the other thread. In fact, my R-M adapter set-up already includes adapter 14167 (i.e. Viso - R adapter). In theory this should make the 400mm V into a 400m R, without any effect on the image corners, but perhaps the dedicated R tube would make a difference (though I won't pay US$400 to find out...). If you could try to compare both of your lenses that would be brilliant, thanks. Otherwise, I think I might simply learn to live with the vignetting, shooting wide and cropping where necessary, especially since the corners of images taken with these lenses is never sharp to begin with.  I will see what I can do. Now I would like to know myself. I even found one of my two 14167 adapters and all three 14127. As Jaap pointed out my 22228 adapter is narrower at one end. Too bad as it can be combined with one of the before mentioned adapters to form an extension tube of exactly the depth of a Visoflex III.  BTW, I got both V- and R-type mount tubes by buying a 400/6.8 lens with V-mount and a 560/6.8 with R-mount. Luckily the V-mount also came with an 14127. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2015 Share #32  Posted January 21, 2015 Many thanks to Thorsten alias Dao De Leitz http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/members/dao+de+leitz.html  He made me aware of the following thread (in German) http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/tier-natur/335230-die-amsel-und-der-nachwuchs.html#post2716370  That thread explains that the vignetting is due to the narrower bayonet of the M-mount. There is no vignetting with the R-mount.  Many thanks to Thorsten and the German LUF members indeed!  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share #33 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Many thanks -- good to know that nothing is wrong with my lens! I think I can live with the vignetting, as I said in my previous post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 21, 2015 Share #34  Posted January 21, 2015 That small vignetting has been present on my long Telyts also at film times... clearly, the M mount dimensions are at limit with those lenses : I made some quick examples which also show that the very old 400 f5, made before the R line, so a "Viso only" design, is the 400 that has the LESS vignetting... or, maybe, the only for which the vignetting is a "usual" one , not due to the mechanic of the mount.  Pictures taken with M 240, the 400 6,8 has the original Viso tube.  400 6,8 with Novoflex LEM/VIS, wide open Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  400 6,8 with Viso III, wide open : a little but noticeable difference (i think is real and not due to other factors...the pics were taken with the same exposure 2 minutes one from the other)  With the 400 5,6 on Televit and LEM/VIS things are not much different  While the old 400 f5 shows what I referred to as a (maybe) "natural-optical" vignetting (OUBIO+ LEM/VIS)  BTW, same phenomenon with the Telyt 560 6,8 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  400 6,8 with Viso III, wide open : a little but noticeable difference (i think is real and not due to other factors...the pics were taken with the same exposure 2 minutes one from the other)  With the 400 5,6 on Televit and LEM/VIS things are not much different  While the old 400 f5 shows what I referred to as a (maybe) "natural-optical" vignetting (OUBIO+ LEM/VIS)  BTW, same phenomenon with the Telyt 560 6,8 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240060-telyt-400mm-f68-what-i-am-doing-wrong/?do=findComment&comment=2750768'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 21, 2015 Share #35  Posted January 21, 2015 By the way... I took those pictures quickly from home... and hadn't time and will to mount the monstrous 800 6,3... but I have some pics taken with M240 and LEM/VIS which shows that, curiosly, the Telyt-S does NOT show the vignetting (the image is less significant, but rather clear at the angles) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240060-telyt-400mm-f68-what-i-am-doing-wrong/?do=findComment&comment=2750774'>More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 21, 2015 Share #36 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Like I said yesterday, the OP's severe vignetting problem with the 400/6.8 Telyt-V on the M240 is due to the extra light baffle on the current version Leica R/M adapter which reduces the inner diameter at the rear flange by 2mm. This can be seen in the attached photo looking thru the cutout on the flange. The simple solution to his problem is get a different adapter, Novoflex, Fotodiox, whatever. Those have flat black paint inside the flange, and no thick baffle ring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 21, 2015 Share #37 Â Posted January 21, 2015 I am not sure that the culprit is ONLY in the M-R adapter : in my above example, the Telyt 400 is the version with Viso mount, and the vignetting occurs both with Viso as well as with the LEM/VIS adapter, which has no sort of baffle inside the flange... the M bayonet has its inner diameter completely free (the tube is even a bit larger, in diameter, than the M mouth) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 21, 2015 Share #38 Â Posted January 21, 2015 All I know is, on the M240, the Telyt-V 400/6.8 + 16467 V(M)-to-R adapter + Novoflex LEM-LER DOES NOT VIGNETTE. I tried it, I tried the Leica adapter. The Leica adapter vignettes, the Novoflex doesn't. There is a clearly visible explanation for why that is. I don't know what more proof is needed. Anyone who wants or feels compelled to make a simple matter needlessly more complicated is welcome to do so but switching his Leica R/M adapter for a Novoflex or Fotodiox WILL SOLVE THE OP's PROBLEM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 21, 2015 Share #39 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Hi Luigi, Â Many thanks for your posts. Much appreciated - as always. Using the Telyt-V 400/6.8 + Visoflex III + M9 already vignettes. That's my experience consistent with the first image in post #1. That's also the experience in the German thread. No adapter involved. However, starting out with the Telyt-R 400/6.8 the German thread reports no vignetting. According to them the narrower bayonet of the Telyt-V is the culprit. Â I now will do my own tests with both Telyt-V and Telyt-R versions and report back. I have a number of different adapters that I can use with the Telyts and an FF camera, the Sony A7R. It will be also interesting to find out if a particular adapter exacerbates the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 21, 2015 Share #40 Â Posted January 21, 2015 Using that lens with a Visoflex on M film cameras I never noticed vignetting (at least not significant that I could see it) but I always shot slides and a slide mount does crop a bit so that could be a mitigating factor. I did use it with the M9 but as I recall, not that much, and it could be possible that the shots I used it for did not have light-colored corners so the vignetting was camouflaged. I used it more with the M8 and of course the cropped sensor would have mitigated it completely. Â I also used it extensively on my 5D (with 14167 and Novoflex R/EOS adapter) with no vignetting. It seems to me it should have been exacerbated by the Canon's lack of microlenses, but maybe it was the reverse. Idrk. I feel no present need to source an R tube because my V tube works without vignetting on the 5D and M240 (provided I use the Novoflex LEM-LER) but it will be interesting to see what it does on the A7R. At least this is a telephoto lens, so worst come to worst cropping to maybe a 450mm effective focal length shouldn't really hinder photography all that much. At least the vignetting is easily seen in 100% LV/EVF, which aids in accurately composing with the expecation of cropping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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