sean_reid Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #21 Posted May 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) the 15 heliar works when coded at a WATE (no rf cam actuation, simon) and it brings up the 28mm framelines. if your zeiss brings up the 50 frame lines, isn't that the problem? unfortunately, the bayonet tab has to be longer for the 28 by about .037" compared to the tab for the 50 you can actually see the tab edge difference in Mark's photo, (compare the tab edges near the lens lock/detent at about 1:00 o'clock) Hi John, It isn't, in this case, because holding the frame preview lever in the 28-90 position brings up the correct menu. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here Hand Coding Zeiss 15/2.8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sean_reid Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #22 Posted May 5, 2007 I hope someone is writing all of this down. The issues of getting correct lens coding on a non-Leica lens can be so complex as to be a real detriment to a non dedicated amatuer. Of course that is what Leica thinks is in their best interest but most of us think differently about that. After all this is sorted out, it would be nice if someone could provide an all-in-one coding service that involves all the coding issues including everything from the coding slots to the frameline selection issue. Although it is kind of fun to understand how all these variables intereact, the truth of it is that it is way too much for your average bear to comprehend. Rex Hi Rex, It's simplified with LTM lenses, however, which is why I'm so interested in them. The reasons: 1. One can specify the adapter used so that it triggers the same frame lines as the Leica lens from which a given code is derived. So a CV 21 can be used with a 28/90 adapter for example. 2. As you and I have talked about for months, adapters with indentations can now be used. With those two things in place, one only needs Carsten's list for the codes. The tricky lenses are the M mount ones that bring up the wrong frame lines in the M8. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted May 5, 2007 Share #23 Posted May 5, 2007 sean: it sounds like the zeiss lens has the wrong tab; if it had the tab to bring up 28mm frame (like you can do with the lever) it would work. it is a tab problem. your first post says the WATE menus does not come up with the lever set manually to 28mm. I'm confused. on another matter: i've noticed that the Heliar will code for the WATE but the default focal length of 18mm and the drop down menu keeps coming back after a few shots, having been set at 16 previously. sometimes the menu just pops up. anyone notice this? i would have expected that you mount the lens (15 or WATE), select ON+UV/IR, menu drops down with default 18mm highlighted, you select 16mm and SET. and it should stay that way until you remove the lens, or shut off the camera. sometimes, after shutoff and turn on it does retain the 16mm setting.!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argomazov Posted May 5, 2007 Share #24 Posted May 5, 2007 i've noticed that the Heliar will code for the WATE but the default focal length of 18mm and the drop down menu keeps coming back after a few shots, having been set at 16 previously. sometimes the menu just pops up. anyone notice this? i would have expected that you mount the lens (15 or WATE), select ON+UV/IR, menu drops down with default 18mm highlighted, you select 16mm and SET. and it should stay that way until you remove the lens, or shut off the camera. sometimes, after shutoff and turn on it does retain the 16mm setting.!! I've noticed this too. I think it's a bug in the firmware. I hope they revise this part of the firmware to make the lens setting "stick" even when the camera goes to sleep... Luca Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #25 Posted May 5, 2007 sean: it sounds like the zeiss lens has the wrong tab; if it had the tab to bring up 28mm frame (like you can do with the lever) it would work. it is a tab problem. your first post says the WATE menus does not come up with the lever set manually to 28mm. I'm confused. Hi John, The Zeiss lens, by default, brings up the wrong frame lines. That's a given and it applies to several of the Zeiss lenses, unfortunately. Now that I've temporarily covered the screw with a white label, the lens *is now* detected as a WATE when the frame lever is held to 28/90. Still confused or is that clearer? I think you may have missed one of my posts in this thread. I had to do that label thing for some Zeiss lenses a couple of months ago but had forgotten about it. The screw was the villain. Best, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted May 5, 2007 Share #26 Posted May 5, 2007 got it now, sean re the drop down menus: i had just been shooting 40 or so frames with the 15 and had the pesky behaviour and wrote the post. Now it is retaining the 16mm shut-off, turn-on, shots fired, regardless. buggy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted May 5, 2007 Share #27 Posted May 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) got it now, sean re the drop down menus: i had just been shooting 40 or so frames with the 15 and had the pesky behaviour and wrote the post. Now it is retaining the 16mm shut-off, turn-on, shots fired, regardless. buggy. Sean, John It would be nice if Voightlander would continue to support(fully) the LTM but it seems Mr. K seems to want to want to forget about his experience in digital land. You can't blame him, Epson wasn't exactly a good match for his corporate personality. If he could be convinced supporting a digital Leica is a good idea, that would be great. I personally believe that coding the older design symmetrical screw mount lenses works better on the M8 than any film camera. All the vignetting issues of the non-retrofocus designs go away but you get to keep the tiny lenses of the era. Plus there are a lot less issues with distortion with the wides. If Mr K played his cards right, he would issue a bunch of symmetrical ultra-wides to fill in the gap created by the 1.33 crop factor of the M8. And, with modern aspheric elements he could problably make them faster than the f3.5 or so required at the time. Furthermore, he could further keep size and weight under control by just supporting the M8's reduced format Stephen will kill me for that suggestion. I'll probably be banned. Can you imaginge a nice pancake 21mm F2 or a 24mm F1.4 ? Rex Hope springith eternal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argomazov Posted May 5, 2007 Share #28 Posted May 5, 2007 re the drop down menus: i had just been shooting 40 or so frames with the 15 and had the pesky behaviour and wrote the post. Now it is retaining the 16mm shut-off, turn-on, shots fired, regardless. buggy. It's got to be a bug. I've found another related one: on a couple of occasions the camera woke up asking me for the lens setting (16/18/21). I am positive that I set 16 (it's a coded Heliar that I'm using, after all...), but later on I found out via EXIF that the camera operated under the 18mm assumption. The first time I thought I had set it wrong, but the second time I paid more attention and I am positive that I set it correctly. This has happened to me three out of probably 40 short shooting sessions with the Heliar, so it's a bug that's probably hard to replicate. Cheers, Luca Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted May 5, 2007 Share #29 Posted May 5, 2007 I just went through the shots from today and found many with the Heliar where the focal length was "unknown" and the cyan corners were heavy. I had detection ON+UV/IR and the leica 39mm filter mounted. on a few, the data showed 18mm and the cyan was corrected. I'm going to shoot some more with the 16mm setting and watch more carefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
finkaudio Posted May 5, 2007 Share #30 Posted May 5, 2007 Hi, I had the same problem with my "paper sheet" coded lens and the newer adapter, but only if light was falling on the sensor. In a darker room, the reading was safe. Maybe the coding is not 100% correct?? Best regards Karl-Heinz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
finkaudio Posted May 5, 2007 Share #31 Posted May 5, 2007 ...any comments from users of the real WATE??? KH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted May 5, 2007 Share #32 Posted May 5, 2007 took another 40 shots carefully noting the setting in the Info page. a few would show the 16mm setting, but most were showing 18mm and several were unknown. the drop down menu showed up frequently...I would set it to 16 and take the shot, then look at the info. the adapter I am using is a modified C/V, machine exatly like the Leica LTM adapters. those have a slight step (.010") in the flange mating surface and could possibly be leaking light (all my shots were in the bright sun). Next I'll try one of my made-from-scratch adapters which do not have the step. the stock coded Leica lenses (like the WATE) do not have the step, neither do the Zeiss M lenses. Sean: can you test this out as well, since you have the machined Leica adapters with the step as well as the LTM8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted May 5, 2007 Share #33 Posted May 5, 2007 Karl-Heinz may be onto something. I set it for 16mm, indoors, worked fine four times in a row, hoding the 16 in the info. then I turned a lamp on the side of the camera where the sensors are and it reverted to 18 with the mensu dropping down. this repeated three times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted May 5, 2007 Share #34 Posted May 5, 2007 got it now, sean re the drop down menus: i had just been shooting 40 or so frames with the 15 and had the pesky behaviour and wrote the post. Now it is retaining the 16mm shut-off, turn-on, shots fired, regardless. buggy. Could it be that you are nudging the preview lever and a frameline other than the 90mm is selected for a moment and then the wate menu comes up. I haven't used my 15mm in a while, but the prompting for focal length when turning on the camera became anoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #35 Posted May 5, 2007 Sean, John It would be nice if Voightlander would continue to support(fully) the LTM but it seems Mr. K seems to want to want to forget about his experience in digital land. You can't blame him, Epson wasn't exactly a good match for his corporate personality. If he could be convinced supporting a digital Leica is a good idea, that would be great... Hi Rex, Well...business is business and lens sales are usually of interest to companies that sell lenses. While he may not like digital cameras, he probably likes selling lenses. Leica certainly does. <G> So we'll see. Voigtlander did change the shroud protecting the rear element of the 35/1.2 Nokton so as to accommodate the M8. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #36 Posted May 5, 2007 ...any comments from users of the real WATE??? KH I was just thinking that. There's only a problem if it happens with the real thing. Otherwise, it may be a challenge self-coders will need to sort out. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #37 Posted May 5, 2007 Sean: can you test this out as well, since you have the machined Leica adapters with the step as well as the LTM8? Sure. In fact I have two coded like the WATE right now. One is yours and one is a Leitz 9 cm. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 6, 2007 Share #38 Posted May 6, 2007 No problems with the WATE here - once set, it stays that way. I still sometimes forget to change the setting manually when I've changed to focal length though and end up with cyan or red into the corners. As I discuss on another thread, the lens detection is running continuously, so if the menu suddenly pops up, it's because the camera has first lost the recognition, then found it again. The amount of light coming out of the sensor is tiny, so the mount needs to be light-tight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted May 6, 2007 Share #39 Posted May 6, 2007 Could it be that you are nudging the preview lever and a frameline other than the 90mm is selected for a moment and then the wate menu comes up. No. We know from Mark's anatomy lesson that when the mount says 28mm, you can only pull the frame lever, and pulling the frame lever doesn't change the lens identification bits. The light leak theory makes more sense here. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted May 6, 2007 Share #40 Posted May 6, 2007 No problems with the WATE here - once set, it stays that way. I still sometimes forget to change the setting manually when I've changed to focal length though and end up with cyan or red into the corners. As I discuss on another thread, the lens detection is running continuously, so if the menu suddenly pops up, it's because the camera has first lost the recognition, then found it again. The amount of light coming out of the sensor is tiny, so the mount needs to be light-tight. Mark: With the WATE mounted does your M8 prompt for focal length when the camera is turned on? Does it prompt when brought out of sleep mode? Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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