jdlaing Posted September 5, 2014 Share #381 Posted September 5, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's faster. I won't be getting one as I'm satisfied with the M 240 but it's faster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Hi jdlaing, Take a look here The New LEICA M-P: Discreet, Faster, Harder. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pop Posted September 5, 2014 Share #382 Posted September 5, 2014 I studied those algorithms back in the dark ages I once wrote a travesty program based on parts of a conditional Huffman encoder. I can't quite recall what language I was using then but it must have been one of the scripting languages in IBM's CMS, such as EXEC or REXX. That must have been in 1984 or thereabout as I had read about the Travesty thing in Scientific American shortly before. I am quite sure I have not done it in Assembly; I had stopped using that language quite some time before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 6, 2014 Share #383 Posted September 6, 2014 I once wrote a travesty program based on parts of a conditional Huffman encoder. I can't quite recall what language I was using . I am guessing it was a an IBM proprietary script. If you wrote in C, then if you are as removed as I am, we cannot read our own code. C is the language we wrote but cannot read. Seriously. I wrote a one-line of code that sent my supervisor to ecstasy for its elegance and fifteen years later I could not understand it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted September 6, 2014 Share #384 Posted September 6, 2014 Are you referring to Lisp-C? IBM proprietary language. I tried to get a class in it but was not allowed. So I ended up disassembling the object code instead, ouch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 6, 2014 Share #385 Posted September 6, 2014 Are you referring to Lisp-C?. Another of IBM's entirely overreaching and stupid efforts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted September 6, 2014 Share #386 Posted September 6, 2014 Another of IBM's entirely overreaching and stupid efforts. Maybe, but the whole bloody OS was written in it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 6, 2014 Share #387 Posted September 6, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting theory. Not just interesting; it also agrees with the observations. But noise on highlights should be minimal and most of it removed by the binning operation. Binning? I am not aware of any binning performed. Anyway, while noise in the highlights is minimal (relative to the signal, though not in absolute terms), the highlights are the last area where you would expect to run into posterisation issues. Once you map the linearly digitised raw data into the logarithmical scales of exposure values or f-stops, you get a ridiculously fine resolution of tonal values in the highlights that drops sharply if you turn to the shadows. The lossy sqrt-compression reduces this imbalance but the resolution of highlights is still considerably higher than that of the shadows even after compression is applied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 6, 2014 Share #388 Posted September 6, 2014 Binning? I am not aware of any binning performed. It's binning on values, not on pixels. Call it quantization if you like. Anyway, while noise in the highlights is minimal (relative to the signal, though not in absolute terms), the highlights are the last area where you would expect to run into posterisation issues. Once you map the linearly digitised raw data into the logarithmical scales of exposure values or f-stops, you get a ridiculously fine resolution of tonal values in the highlights that drops sharply if you turn to the shadows. The lossy sqrt-compression reduces this imbalance but the resolution of highlights is still considerably higher than that of the shadows even after compression is applied. Not if you postprocess images. Algorithm such as tone-mapping will compress highlights and may cause posterization. Now, if only someone could give me two identical files from an M9, one compressed and one not, I might be able to demonstrate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 6, 2014 Share #389 Posted September 6, 2014 Not if you postprocess images. Algorithm such as tone-mapping will compress highlights and may cause posterization. The gamma correction will always be applied to provide natural looking tonal values; any postprocessing is applied on top of that. Of course you could tweak the histogram until there is posterisation, but then you could achieve that result even with an uncompressed file. Ever since 2006 there have been suspicions that the lossy compression in the M8 (and later the M9) would create posterisation issues in postprocessing, still these issues have never been successfully demonstrated to exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 7, 2014 Share #390 Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) The gamma correction will always be applied to provide natural looking tonal values; any postprocessing is applied on top of that. Not all algorithms are applied after gamma correction. And even so, it really depend on what the algorithm does. still these issues have never been successfully demonstrated to exist. This does not mean they don't exist. And indeed they exist. As a matter of fact, see CornerFix FAQ (search for "should I use compressed"): https://sites.google.com/site/cornerfix/faqs Edited September 7, 2014 by CheshireCat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted September 7, 2014 Share #391 Posted September 7, 2014 After reading about the new M240-P I decided to give mine the upgrade. It cost about 50 cents and my kamera didn't have to go back to Wetzlar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 7, 2014 Share #392 Posted September 7, 2014 After reading about the new M240-P I decided to give mine the upgrade. It cost about 50 cents and my kamera didn't have to go back to Wetzlar... Nice try... but where's the SCREW ? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 7, 2014 Share #393 Posted September 7, 2014 Nice try... but where's the SCREW ? At the bottom line of the original receipt. . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramosa Posted September 8, 2014 Share #394 Posted September 8, 2014 Surely you did not expect a revolutionary new product after just two years? From Leica, (unfortunately) no. However, from other camera companies, yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hossegor Posted September 8, 2014 Share #395 Posted September 8, 2014 they will just make more special editions instead of innovations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 8, 2014 Share #396 Posted September 8, 2014 they will just make more special editions instead of innovations. No New M every 3 years P edition mid to late cycle Always other special editions Perfectly fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 8, 2014 Share #397 Posted September 8, 2014 From Leica, (unfortunately) no. However, from other camera companies, yes. Yep, maybe Canon will eventually replace the EOS 7D this photokina, after 5 years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 8, 2014 Share #398 Posted September 8, 2014 Yep, maybe Canon will eventually replace the EOS 7D this photokina, after 5 years. Don't get me started In 3 years, Canon launched: 1Dx, 1Dc, 5D3, 6D, 70D, 650D, 700D, 100D, 1200D, M, M2, ... Pro models are usually updated every 2 years (1D) or 3 years (5D). The only notable exception is the 7D (that you picked on purpose ). However, the 70D, released last year, can be considered a 7D Mark-1.5 (if you don't absolutely need the magnesium body). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted September 8, 2014 Share #399 Posted September 8, 2014 Don't get me started In 3 years, Canon launched: 1Dx, 1Dc, 5D3, 6D, 70D, 650D, 700D, 100D, 1200D, M, M2, ... Pro models are usually updated every 2 years (1D) or 3 years (5D). The only notable exception is the 7D (that you picked on purpose ). However, the 70D, released last year, can be considered a 7D Mark-1.5 (if you don't absolutely need the magnesium body). And a Prius is a Maserati without all the extras. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted September 8, 2014 Share #400 Posted September 8, 2014 The Prius can park itself whereas the Maserati can't Isn't the 6D some sort of downgraded 5D2? There is something I find rather annoying about Canon. Leica removed the red dot on the M-P. Doesn't change a thing about my photography. Canon decided to remove the exchangeable focussing screens on the 5D3. That's annoying as I wanted the better focussing system for my tele lenses and the egs screen for my Zeiss lenses. I have no problem carrying 2 Leica's for a day, but walking around all day long with a 5D2 with the 21 mm Zeiss plus a 5D3 with a 70-200/2.8??? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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