Leica X1/2 or the Ricoh GR

[wda]

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I also need to mention that my X1 broke, twice. The first time was that the thumb wheel would rotate freely, and it was repaired under warranty. The second time was that the lens would not extend, and Leica US charged me over $700 for it. (They needed to replace the whole lens-sensor unit.)....

cpclee, this is the first example of these specific failures of which I have read. Were there any allied accidents or misuse associated with them?

 

All equipment is subject to malfunction of some kind. However, from my observations, the only recurring reports have been peeling of original skins. The X1 in my experience, with reasonable care and handling has proved very reliable.

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[owen27]

Wow thanks for all your advice. Really heartening to see such enthusiastic forum members helping me out... I am really appreciative of all the advice here.

Thanks so much!

[cpclee]

My point isn't that the X1 is unreliable, but that if it fails repairs are costly.

 

In my case, the lens extension mechanism broke, probably by the ON switch getting hit while the camera was in its case and the lens couldn't extend. But the lens and sensor being one unit, they had to replace the whole thing. Thus the expense.

 

I believe the lens sensor unit is made for Leica by a partner and shipped to Leica for assembly (my guess). So if any part of it breaks Leica will not try to take it apart to repair.

[glyn.evans]

Hi all,

 

Am looking at a APSC compact camera and have been going to and fro these models.

I understand the Ricoh is more compact and pocketable, however the biggest downside to me is that it's made in china thus i question its quality control.

Also there is slight body size with leica x1 being smaller than x2.

 

Thus i seek advice whether the x1 and x2 size is not differentiable and if they are as pocketable as the gr. I am very new and usually use jpeg and rarely post process. (maybe in future i will) love b&w. would like a camera that can last me.

Ease of use is impt. tend to analog rather thatn menu driven... i think in this aspect advice from experience photographers the experience of learning photography with leica all it is made up of?

 

I have the X2 and older GRD 4. The GRD 4 is by far the best of the two. Based on my own experience, I would recommend the Ricoh over the Leica.

[cpclee]

A couple of shots taken with the Ricoh GR over the weekend. With the X1, I had difficulty capturing my daughter because of the slow AF. No such frustration with the GR.

 

OTOH, if your use is primarily towards photographs that don't require a fast response time, then the X1 is a joy to use and has plenty to offer.

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[owen27]

Thanks! Lovely family!

 

Hence the dilemma... Somehow it's like the samsung galaxy vs iPhone argument... where iPhone doesn't give you this and that while galaxy gives you all the functions and specs you want. However, i still much prefer the usability of the iPhone over the galaxy.

Might not make much sense... hehe...

[cpclee]

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And here are some pictures I took with the X1 over the years. In terms of pure image quality, I think the X1 edges out the GR. There is something about its color palette and rendition of details that gave the pictures a very special quality. I rank its lens up there with the very best from Leica.

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[Ecaton]

I have the X2 and older GRD 4. The GRD 4 is by far the best of the two. Based on my own experience, I would recommend the Ricoh over the Leica.

 

The GRD4 has a tiny sensor, country miles behind today`s aps-c sensor cams in IQ.

[owen27]

Thanks all for all the advice and lovely pictures.

In the end i have yet to decide, though am leaning towards the ricoh gr for:

1) Portability size

2) Intend to bring it to spain thus feels ricoh as being less attention grabbing? Don't want to attract with a red dot on tour

3) Lens has auto cap... one less thing to worry

[Archiver]

I have the X2 and older GRD 4. The GRD 4 is by far the best of the two. Based on my own experience, I would recommend the Ricoh over the Leica.

 

I am very interested to know your experiences with the X2 vs. the GRD IV.

[owen27]

Got my ricoh gr. Was not as straightforward as a compact might be... lots of customization makes it bit of a steeper learning curve.

[wda]

Got my ricoh gr. Was not as straightforward as a compact might be... lots of customization makes it bit of a steeper learning curve.

I guess it is just a 'stepping stone'. Eventually you will buy a Leica and discover no-one notices the little red dot. I still use my X1 and hardly notice the extra bulk created by the third-party auto-lens cap. It is a great convenience and well worth adding.

[MarkP]

Have you considered a Sony RX1®?

[rob_w]

I just acquired a GR. Agree the customization options cause a headache but once that's done the device is pretty neat. Fits in a pocket. IQ really good. The only quibble versus an X2 is that the GR being very light weight is more difficult to hold steady at low shutter speeds. This early on, I would say the files require more PP attention than my M9 but expect to get faster at it.

 

I had (still have) a GR II and enjoyed the convenience of it always being with me. The new GR has the large sensor which essentially overcomes the IQ limitations of the old model. On the other hand, I now need to be more careful about focus -- which is why I have to read carefully about all the focus options and get that headache.

 

I also like that if someone steals my work bag it "only" has the GR and not thousands of dollars worth of M equipment inside.

 

The GR really is a remarkable camera. Not much could be added to a list of requested improvements.

[timde]

Got my ricoh gr. Was not as straightforward as a compact might be... lots of customization makes it bit of a steeper learning curve.

 

On mine I have the following setup; for the ADJ menu;

Flash compensation

Effect

Metering

AF/MF

Continuous select

 

FN1 moves the focus pointer

FN2 toggles between Multi AF and Pinpoint AF

FN3 toggles between 28/35/47mm crop.

 

I have MY1 set AEP Normal (above settings), MY2 with portrait settings (center metering AUTO ISO to 800, FN2 toggles between Pinpoint AF and Subject tracking) and MY3 for landscape (infinity focus, ISO 100, Vivid)

[cpclee]

Customizing the GR for the first time can be a little daunting / frustrating especially when you don't know how you will use your camera yet. But in time you will appreciate the flexibility the customization provides.

[owen27]

Thanks guys for all the advice... yes really daunting... i guess the best is to just play with the settings and see how the pictures turn out...much less expensive then experimenting in film.

 

Did consider the RX1R esp sony running promo going at approx US2340 now... however the lens protrusion is quite alot. nice camera and ooc jpeg is tempting... still gr is at about US650 so advantages there.

 

Though have been taking pics for years but really still a newbie. never really gotten down to nitty gritty of stuff. Let's see what i can do...

[rob_w]

Customizing the GR for the first time can be a little daunting / frustrating especially when you don't know how you will use your camera yet. But in time you will appreciate the flexibility the customization provides.

Agreed. So far I have only set MY1 to mimic how I use the M9: aperture priority, centre metering, etc. That is a "known known" so a good place to start. Will then vary other settings as conditions change and eventually capture the preferred ones as presets; next is likely to be something for low light situations. I will have to work with images under a wide range of conditions and PP to understand what settings work best long-term.

 

One focus option that is causing me confusion is face-detect. I would like to use this when working with groups of people but it does not seem to be present as an option no matter what settings I use. I don't much like multi-AF. Relying on auto focus at all does remind me of why I like the rangefinder approach so much.

 

Anyway, this is a Leica forum so I wont rattle on about the Ricoh too much here. (So far the Ricoh forums I have visited are not a patch on the quality or controversy you get in this forum. If you have come across any good sites please p.m. me.)

 

Summary of my experience: the pocketability and overall image quality of the GR do complement the M nicely. Like others I have been tempted by, say, the Sony RX1, but I can't see the point of owning a camera which competes with the M rather than complements it. The X2 is a good complement as well on the same points. I went for the Ricoh because of even smaller size and lower price for pretty much the same performance.

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[timde]

Face detect only works when mode dial is set to the "green camera" ... unfortunately.

[cpclee]

The way to think about the GR's philosophy is that, like any camera, it has a Menu button which brings up a full list of functions. But unlike other cameras, Ricoh gives you a way to customize your most used functions to a quick menu (Adj dial) or to the toggle switches (Fn1, Fn2, and Effect buttons) so you don't have to navigate through the full menu every time.

 

Among these, the toggle switches give you the quickest access because you're just one click away from switching on/off your most used functions. I have Fn1 set to Snap mode, Fn2 to Focus Tracking, and Effect button to 28/35/47mm crop mode. Plus Macro, WB and Flash Mode have their default toggle switches. These are my most used functions and it's great to be able to toggle these on and off with one click.

 

Beyond these, my next most used functions are customized to the quick menu with the Adj dial. Here, the Adj dial brings up a menu, but it's a shortened menu with only functions you deem important enough to put in there so you can navigate through them quickly. I have (in this order) Continuous Shooting, Flash Compensation, ISO, Effect (eg. B&W), Picture Size (eg. resolution).

 

Together, these customizations allow me to access my most important and secondary functions quickly during shooting. They help me avoid using the full menu when I'm busy shooting. The full menu has far too many functions and many of which I will never use.

 

In summary, the GR follows a different philosophy from most cameras. It gives you a ton of features but allows you to customize how you will access the ones that are most important to you. This is unlike most other cameras where you are given a ton of features but the interface to access them is poor. Ricoh's philosophy actually works quite well and I've come to appreciate it. The benefits are especially evident on a camera like the GXR with M mount module, where I customize the all-important manual focus aids to the Fn1 and Fn2 toggle switches.

 

For a new user, I'd recommend that you shoot the camera a few times to learn about what your most used functions are. And then after that you can worry about how to customize your buttons and dials in the most logical way. It's like using a smartphone: Once you know which apps you use the most, you customize them to your home screen so can get to them with the least navigation.

 

The Leica X follows a different philosophy. Here you are given only the most basic / essential features. Each one is accessed by its own button since there are not that many to begin with. I appreciated this simplicity too when I had the X1.