jmahto Posted July 2, 2014 Share #61 Posted July 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) One of the advantages of digital is having ISO as a third exposure parameter, mitigating the inverse nature of shutterspeed and aperture. However I would prefer in manual mode simply to have ISO assigned to the thumb wheel and affecting the metering diodes just like changing shutterspeed does. Please no thumb wheel for ISO. I really don't want a design where ISO can be accidentally changed (or from Auto ISO to a fixed higher value). It is disheartening to find out (high ISO shots) after you are back from the shoot. I have used NEX and Canon DSLRs and have managed to accidentally change ISO. However it has never happened in my M9 where I am very conscious of changing ISO. By switching my user profile I can reset all ISO changes to what I want in one step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Hi jmahto, Take a look here Auto ISO to obtain correct exposure?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest roey Posted July 2, 2014 Share #62 Posted July 2, 2014 I agree. ISO deserves a dedicated dial (like the shutter speed dial) where you can actually see the current setting. I would like to have all three variables (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) visible and accessible without having to press a button or look at the screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 2, 2014 Share #63 Posted July 2, 2014 I agree. ISO deserves a dedicated dial (like the shutter speed dial) where you can actually see the current setting. I would like to have all three variables (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) visible and accessible without having to press a button or look at the screen. Dedicated dial with visible values is better than thumb wheel *but* then I won't be able to reset the ISO value and setting using user profile (which I like). Maybe the current way of changing ISO is the best (or it suits my way of doing things) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted July 2, 2014 Share #64 Posted July 2, 2014 Please no thumb wheel for ISO. I really don't want a design where ISO can be accidentally changed It seems with that logic you would also not want an aperture ring or shutter speed dial I suggested the thumb wheel because it could be done with firmware on the existing camera. A separate dial would be great but that would mean the next generation. The thumb wheel ISO setting functions could be configured such that it would require first pressing another button, or a half-press of the shutter release. Even the shutterspeed and aperture don't have that kind of safeguard against accidental movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 3, 2014 Share #65 Posted July 3, 2014 The exposure compensation dial provided by the new firmware can be considered as an ISO dial. Set auto ISO, manual shutter speed, manual aperture (of course), then rolling the thumb wheel will change the ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 3, 2014 Share #66 Posted July 3, 2014 It seems with that logic you would also not want an aperture ring or shutter speed dial I suggested the thumb wheel because it could be done with firmware on the existing camera. A separate dial would be great but that would mean the next generation. The thumb wheel ISO setting functions could be configured such that it would require first pressing another button, or a half-press of the shutter release. Even the shutterspeed and aperture don't have that kind of safeguard against accidental movement. No. I do want the aperture and shutter speed dial. changing ISO by another button/wheel while pressing another button is already there. I don't consider ISO as frequently accessed compared to A and S. The way I shoot, I hardly change ISO (night time is take care of by auto with predetermined high ceiling). If still underexposed then I push in LR. For me A & S are the main input. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted July 4, 2014 Share #67 Posted July 4, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Auto ISO is simply a way of achieving correct exposure when you need the shutter speed and aperture to remain constant, such as to stop movement and give enough DOF etc. What can be wrong with that? Steve You are absolutely right! Last night I took my M out and was faced with extreme varying light conditions. Without Auto ISO I could not have changed ISO fast enough to capture the various images at a fixed shutter speed. I had an m9 prior to the M240 and this version of Auto ISO is much better. I can set the aperture and shutter speed and nail the exposures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted July 4, 2014 Share #68 Posted July 4, 2014 I think users should be allowed to choose either option. Of course one should be able to choose either option. Auto ISO in MANUAL mode is "TAV" mode in other cameras. I was in a nightclub under varying extremes of strobe lighting where Auto ISO is essential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted July 4, 2014 Share #69 Posted July 4, 2014 Yes indeed, but at least it is for a good reason (avoiding slow shutter speeds). Still it would preferable if the camera did refrain from increasing amplification above ISO 800, 1600, or thereabouts and would leave it to the raw converter to brighten the image. Fuji’s X models do that for any ISO values > 1600 so the raw data of shots at ISO 1600, 3200, or 6400 are identical; only the meta data differs. It encourages using the camera in a way that yields suboptimal results. I have no difficulty avoiding the Auto ISO trap but this isn’t about me. In an ideal world every photographer would understand what happens when you change the ISO setting of a digital camera and how this affects the pictures shot, but we are still quite far from that ideal. There are times when Auto ISO is essential. And with the current version of this in the new firmware, one can set the max ISO to 1600, for example, and not create too much noise. One can still vary the shutter speed if using the EVF and the shot looks over/under exposed. I do not understand why anyone would not like that. The another poster said it correctly; if you do not like it, don't use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berth Posted July 4, 2014 Share #70 Posted July 4, 2014 You are absolutely right! Last night I took my M out and was faced with extreme varying light conditions. Without Auto ISO I could not have changed ISO fast enough to capture the various images at a fixed shutter speed. I had an m9 prior to the M240 and this version of Auto ISO is much better. I can set the aperture and shutter speed and nail the exposures. I suspect I'll be using Auto ISO extensively for my M-E street photography these next two weeks. Lots of urban/people scenes under changing light conditions. My landscape work will be primarily with my MP, shooting Ektar 100 or Portra 160. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 4, 2014 Share #71 Posted July 4, 2014 ISO deserves a dedicated dial (like the shutter speed dial) where you can actually see the current setting. That’s what a vocal group of customers where telling Fuji, so they built the X-T1 with a dedicated ISO dial. But then people realised that that meant the ISO setting wasn’t stored as part of a user profile anymore, so everyone was like “What was Fuji thinking introducing a dedicated ISO dial!” Another example for why it is a bad idea to blindly do what vocal groups of customers demand you should do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted July 4, 2014 Share #72 Posted July 4, 2014 Why would I want to store ISO in a profile if it was easily accessible with it's own dial? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted July 4, 2014 Share #73 Posted July 4, 2014 The exposure compensation dial provided by the new firmware can be considered as an ISO dial.Set auto ISO, manual shutter speed, manual aperture (of course), then rolling the thumb wheel will change the ISO. But the camera will still vary the ISO automatically if the composition/lighting changes. What I wish for is totally manual control over ISO (as it is with shutter and aperture) using the metering diodes < o > in the viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 4, 2014 Share #74 Posted July 4, 2014 Why would I want to store ISO in a profile if it was easily accessible with it's own dial? User profiles come in handy for switching between modes quickly. Turning one knob one or two clicks is far quicker than turning one knob several clicks and adjusting several settings, and ISO setting is an integral part of user profiles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted July 4, 2014 Share #75 Posted July 4, 2014 User profiles come in handy for switching between modes quickly. Turning one knob one or two clicks is far quicker than turning one knob several clicks and adjusting several settings, and ISO setting is an integral part of user profiles. You could make the same argument about shutter speed and aperture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 4, 2014 Share #76 Posted July 4, 2014 You could make the same argument about shutter speed and aperture. Not really as shutter speed and aperture are exposure parameters and thus specific to a certain shot, whereas the ISO setting is not. But in any case, has anyone ever wanted to include aperture or shutter speed in a user profile? I don’t think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted July 4, 2014 Share #77 Posted July 4, 2014 ISO (for me) is also an exposure parameter. I use shutter speed, aperture and ISO to determine the exposure. I know you disagree, so let's not argue about that. I could image some user would want to create a "portrait" profile with wide open aperture. But I don't propose doing that. My point is that having real controls (dials) for the three exposure params would give the the precise control over the exposure that I want without having to use the screen and/or a profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 5, 2014 Share #78 Posted July 5, 2014 Why would I want to store ISO in a profile if it was easily accessible with it's own dial? User profiles come in handy for switching between modes quickly. Turning one knob one or two clicks is far quicker than turning one knob several clicks and adjusting several settings, and ISO setting is an integral part of user profiles. You could make the same argument about shutter speed and aperture. I don't see how, since ISO setting can be used in ways shutter speed and aperture can not- ISO can be used as an exposure parameter to get a properly exposed image or it can be used as an exposure aid ensuring an image is captured. Not really as shutter speed and aperture are exposure parameters and thus specific to a certain shot, whereas the ISO setting is not. But in any case, has anyone ever wanted to include aperture or shutter speed in a user profile? I don’t think so. ISO (for me) is also an exposure parameter. I use shutter speed, aperture and ISO to determine the exposure. I know you disagree, so let's not argue about that. I could image some user would want to create a "portrait" profile with wide open aperture. But I don't propose doing that. One way profiles can (and often are) used: Profile 1- manual shutter, aperture, and ISO; single shot mode; single point AF; single point metering (though not really relevant; mirror lock-up engaged. Profile 2- manual shutter, auto aperture, and auto ISO (capped at a certain setting)/ or set at the highest acceptable setting; burst mode; multi-point AF; matrix metering; mirror lock-up disabled. While using profile 1 (doing landscape or something similar), an opportunity presents itself for a fleeting moment. Switch to profile 2, take your shot(s), and return to profile 1 and continue. There are a plethora of other real world relevant and common examples where profiles are invaluable. My point is that having real controls (dials) for the three exposure params would give the the precise control over the exposure that I want without having to use the screen and/or a profile. What constitutes "real controls" is a subjective matter, and we all have our preferences. Ultimately I agree that a camera such as the M series should have a way of changing ISO very simply and without the use if both hands. The M series after all encourages a methodical and deliberate approach to photography. It isn't made to excel in all aspects of photography and action photography isn't on the menu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 5, 2014 Share #79 Posted July 5, 2014 ........... action photography isn't on the menu. It is. But it's a speciality dish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 5, 2014 Share #80 Posted July 5, 2014 It is. But it's a speciality dish. I don't disagree:) I use my M9 to photograph my kid at play. Generally I don't think it's the best tool in a professional setting; there are always exceptions. I've no experience with the M240, but it certainly expands the M series's "shooting envelope" (Ming Thein's term) with its ability to use long lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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