M240 vs MP (a la carte)

[stryker]

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I know, I know...this has been discussed a million times (film vs digital). Hear me out.

 

This will be my first Leica camera, and since I'm sinking 7G into a camera, I expect this to not just be a camera, but an investment. With the MP, I will be able to customize it with A La Carte and this will be a lifetime camera (very little digital circuitry, and rock solid reliability). I may even have enough left over to get a 50mm summicron f2 to add to my 35mm summicron f2 in my lens collection. Also, scanning film and archiving it is zen like and calming/romantic for me.

But the M240 is the latest and greatest, and has the flexibility of experimentation with photo techniques without worrying about film costs. But being digital, it will have negligible resale value and will be outdated quickly as with pretty much all digital cameras. Also I haven't shot RF's much before, just the one roll with a friends Yashica 35. Generally (correct me if I'm mistaken), the only bottleneck with film (apart from ISO) is the scanner MP (as long you send the film to a good lab for developing).

 

I am shooting with an OM10 SLR right now, and having this 'time delay' with viewing my images (versus immediate satisfaction/chimping with digital and RAW with editing software) taken slightly irritating.

 

To conclude, I've been mentally going in circles, with film camera MP (ostrich a la carte and it's bloody gorgeous) vs digital camera M240 black (impressive feature set).

 

Does anyone have any advice (or both a film Leica/digital Leica and share their experience)?

 

thanks

stryker

[2wk]

Well, it sounds like you just have to decide wether you want to shoot film or digital.

Keep in mind, if you are going to be shooting film and digitizing...then you are going to need a very capable scanner as well.

 

One other option would be to get a Used M9 & a used M6ttl easily for the price of a 240 or brand new MP.

[rirakuma]

Film and digital are totally different platform, I believe that should be the deciding factor. If you're worried about devaluation then get the MP but keep in mind you're probably going to spend more in film and devs in comparison to the devaluation of the M. The M240 can be bought for about 5.5k in relatively new condition so I'd recommend that instead of getting it brand new.

[IkarusJohn]

If you want a pure Leica experience (and I'd recommend it), I'd get this:

 

• M3 - and send it off to Wetzlar for CLA
  
• M9-P - it is the last of the CCD sensors and more faithful to the original M camera concept than the M(240) to my mind
  

 

Total price somewhere around 4,000 Euros.

 

My first Leica was an M9 (which I upgraded to the M9-P). I then bought a secondhand MP and lens (bargain), but hardly used it. I sold that for a profit (don't ask), and the lens (I already had that lens), and used the proceeds to buy a 1960 M3, which I got re-covered (Vulcanit) and CLA'd by Leica. Perfect working condition, and apart from some scuffs on the top from a viewfinder, looks almost as new. There's something about the M3 that feels good in the hand, the viewfinder is fantastic, no meter (I use a Seconic meter) and somehow I like the history of holding such a camera. But, I have a stack of exposed film I haven't got round to processing, and I'm not looking forward to scanning.

 

Conversely, the M9 gives better results (okay, that's taste) and you just pop out the card and process in LightRoom. I use my M3 exclusively with B&W film, and I also use a Monochrom - the Monochrom wins hands down, I'm afraid. If you're looking at protecting your money, secondhand is the way to go (and lenses). I got very close to ordering a chrome MP with green leather and the traditional advance lever (not that horrible plastic thing), and traditional Leica script. I saw one identical in the Leica Shop in London last year - looked fantastic. But, such a camera is one you keep for life ... it was too much money for me.

 

Have fun.

John

[IkarusJohn]

I meant to add - there has to be a chance that the M(240) gets a re-vamp for Photokina or shortly after. It might be worth holding out to see what Leica does with it.

[stryker]

If you want a pure Leica experience (and I'd recommend it), I'd get this:

 

• M3 - and send it off to Wetzlar for CLA
  
• M9-P - it is the last of the CCD sensors and more faithful to the original M camera concept than the M(240) to my mind
  

 

Total price somewhere around 4,000 Euros.

 

My first Leica was an M9 (which I upgraded to the M9-P). I then bought a secondhand MP and lens (bargain), but hardly used it. I sold that for a profit (don't ask), and the lens (I already had that lens), and used the proceeds to buy a 1960 M3, which I got re-covered (Vulcanit) and CLA'd by Leica. Perfect working condition, and apart from some scuffs on the top from a viewfinder, looks almost as new. There's something about the M3 that feels good in the hand, the viewfinder is fantastic, no meter (I use a Seconic meter) and somehow I like the history of holding such a camera. But, I have a stack of exposed film I haven't got round to processing, and I'm not looking forward to scanning.

 

Conversely, the M9 gives better results (okay, that's taste) and you just pop out the card and process in LightRoom. I use my M3 exclusively with B&W film, and I also use a Monochrom - the Monochrom wins hands down, I'm afraid. If you're looking at protecting your money, secondhand is the way to go (and lenses). I got very close to ordering a chrome MP with green leather and the traditional advance lever (not that horrible plastic thing), and traditional Leica script. I saw one identical in the Leica Shop in London last year - looked fantastic. But, such a camera is one you keep for life ... it was too much money for me.

 

Have fun.

John

 

I guess the M-E would be just as good as a M9P. Thanks!

[Jeff S]

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In addition to the comments here, If you type the words 'film versus digital' (or other similar phrases using camera types) into the search box at the top right, you will get a list of some very helpful threads addressing your questions. You're not the first, nor the last to ask….and the thoughts still apply.

 

Here is the first thread that popped up when I did the search.

 

Jeff

[JeffWright]

I know, I know...this has been discussed a million times (film vs digital). Hear me out.

 

This will be my first Leica camera, and since I'm sinking 7G into a camera, I expect this to not just be a camera, but an investment. With the MP, I will be able to customize it with A La Carte and this will be a lifetime camera (very little digital circuitry, and rock solid reliability). I may even have enough left over to get a 50mm summicron f2 to add to my 35mm summicron f2 in my lens collection. Also, scanning film and archiving it is zen like and calming/romantic for me.

But the M240 is the latest and greatest, and has the flexibility of experimentation with photo techniques without worrying about film costs. But being digital, it will have negligible resale value and will be outdated quickly as with pretty much all digital cameras. Also I haven't shot RF's much before, just the one roll with a friends Yashica 35. Generally (correct me if I'm mistaken), the only bottleneck with film (apart from ISO) is the scanner MP (as long you send the film to a good lab for developing).

 

I am shooting with an OM10 SLR right now, and having this 'time delay' with viewing my images (versus immediate satisfaction/chimping with digital and RAW with editing software) taken slightly irritating.

 

To conclude, I've been mentally going in circles, with film camera MP (ostrich a la carte and it's bloody gorgeous) vs digital camera M240 black (impressive feature set).

 

Does anyone have any advice (or both a film Leica/digital Leica and share their experience)?

 

thanks

stryker

 

If you think of either purchase as an investment, that's your first mistake. Both cameras will depreciate at least 10% after you buy them. In 7 years the M Typ 240 will be worth 20% of what you've paid for it. The MP might be worth 90% of what you paid for it because it would be a bit unique.

 

I would recommend getting a used M6, M7, or MP and an M9-P for the cost of either one new, or just buy the M Type 240 or M-E. If you find you like shooting with a Leica rangefinder, buy a film M further down the line. A used Leica MP (the current version) will set you back 2500-3500 USD instead of the $5000 sticker of a new one.

[kdriceman]

Also, scanning film and archiving it is zen like and calming/romantic for me.

 

 

I know what you mean... Nothing is more zen-like than the whirr, lights and clanking of a scanner.

 

In all seriousness, if you haven't done a lot of scanning, you may want to try it for awhile before you make this commitment. Getting consistently high quality scans takes a very good scanner, a lot of time and a lot of practice. I don't do it much anymore because I find that I can get them professionally scanned with consistently much higher quality.

 

 

 

 

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[jlindstrom]

Also all of these cameras will remain just as good as they are now, no matter what new stuff is pushed out. Sure it will have an impact in resale value and you won't have latest & greatest anymore, but does that matter? If you're happy with a camera now, then that should all be irrelevant.

 

If you go digital, then at some point get one or two extra batteries. With those and generally taking good care of your kit, even digital should last a good decade. There are people still shooting with M8 and R8/9 + dmr and are quite happy with what they have..

 

As for the mp, even if film making stops and film runs out 100% in the world (not going to happen) it would still have a place on your bookshelf. Wow, what a camera!

 

Calling any camera investment, you're most likely deceiving yourself. With lenses chances are better though..especially the exotic ones.

 

//Juha

 

 

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[Dikaiosune01]

I am to be in a fortunate enough position where I am able to own both the MP and the M240. Although the MP is not an a la carte.

 

The ergonomics of the camera is what keeps me in touch with leica. I like how it makes me shoot; and it allows me to switch seamlessly from film to digital without much issues.

 

WHICH SHOULD YOU CHOOSE?

I recommend basing your choice on your temperament and reason for taking / making photographs and images.

 

I pick up the M240 because an image needs to be made. Typically for a friend or some kind of event. Something where the image made is the main priority. Or there is insufficient time for me to process and scan the images. Or i need a play button to check my exposure. Any situtation where I need an image, and there is no room for me not have an image. (torn film, Kink in the reel, uneven development, forgetting to close the dark bag, etc)

 

I pick up the MP because i enjoy the process of making an image. From the first moment were I pre-visualize the image i'm going to make. The assurance from the the feedback of the shutter mechanism cocking. to the rewind of the film, loading it into the darkbag. mixing the chemicals. Seeing my image for the very first time as it comes to live. To see what I was able to produce with my two hands, ten fingers and two thumbs, and that little piece of brain matter between my ears.

 

What do you need a camera for?

[AB007]

 

In all seriousness, if you haven't done a lot of scanning, you may want to try it for awhile before you make this commitment. Getting consistently high quality scans takes a very good scanner, a lot of time and a lot of practice. I don't do it much anymore because I find that I can get them professionally scanned with consistently much higher quality.

 

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+1

 

I sold my Epson V700 scanner since I learnt that I neither have the skills nor the patience to use a scanner. Therefore, I sold it. I love shooting films so I use my film cameras and print them.

 

I wanted to try scanning again so I bought a used Nikon scanner. However, I am in a middle of moving across the country so I haven't had a chance to learn how to scan.

 

Anyway, as some forum members suggested maybe buying a used film M or a used M9 might be a good idea. My personal fav Ms are M3, MP and M9. I haven't bonded with the new M yet

[wattsy]

To conclude, I've been mentally going in circles, with film camera MP (ostrich a la carte and it's bloody gorgeous) vs digital camera M240 black (impressive feature set).

 

 

Leaving aside the possibility that the OP is pulling our legs, I'd advise thinking about the photographic objectives first. If the OP is obliged to "sink 7G" into Leica gear, the money is usually always better spent on lenses.

[Nick_S]

I know what you mean... Nothing is more zen-like than the whirr, lights and clanking of a scanner.

 

In all seriousness, if you haven't done a lot of scanning, you may want to try it for awhile before you make this commitment. Getting consistently high quality scans takes a very good scanner, a lot of time and a lot of practice.

I agree with this. I was seriously contemplating getting the roll-film attachment for my Nikon 5000ED scanner so I could batch scan an uncut roll at a time and then just go next door and do something more interesting while the scanner did its thing, noise and all. In the end the Monochrom camera came out and the problem was solved for me.

 

Nick

[250swb]

I know, I know...this has been discussed a million times (film vs digital). Hear me out.

 

This will be my first Leica camera, and since I'm sinking 7G into a camera, I expect this to not just be a camera, but an investment.

 

Neither M240 or M9-P are 'investments', they are just digital camera's that devalue like any other, perhaps an a la Carte version more so because you limit yourself to a smaller number of people with the same taste as you if it's sold.

 

I'm unsure why you want a Leica? Admittedly everybody has to start somewhere, but you haven't used a rangefinder much, and you haven't mentioned what photographic benefits you see in using one. You look forward to experimenting with photo techniques due to the features in an M240, yet other than the M9 the M240 is one of the most featureless digital camera you can buy.

 

Without a clear idea of what you want to photograph that makes a digital Leica rangefinder particularly suitable I think it's way too much money to spend. Stay with Olympus and buy an EM1 or EM5 to get you into digital. With either of those you have far more features to use and experiment with, far more native lenses to choose from (including all the excellent Panasonic lenses which include Leica designs), very high image quality, and you can use the Olympus lenses you already have by using a cheap adapter.

 

Steve

[tookaphotoof]

I have the MP and M240. They are both a great investment for my personal happiness. I also enjoy them both, but in the end film has the edge for me.

That said, it's great to have a digital Leica so you can have a bit more flexibility in how you want the DOF or the motion in photos, because of the ease you can play with the iso and shutter speeds.

 

Don't buy a camera with resale value in mind. Buy it because of the value it ads to your joy of photography!

[stryker]

Thanks guys, you've given me a lot to think about, and I think getting the 240 would be the better choice for my uses.

 

 

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[plasticman]

I don't understand these threads - neither the initial question nor so many of the responses - the decisions and opinions are so personal, why would anyone care what other people think?

 

It's like saying "I like classical music, but hate having to wait around for half an hour until the music ends, so I'm considering switching to pop. What do you think?"

 

And then so many of the answers are like: "Well I used to listen to classical but recently I switched to pop and the quality is so much better. Also, the notes come closer together and they tend to be higher-pitched (which is far superior). Generally it's just more convenient listening in 2-minute segments ymmv. Sorry, but no going back for me!"

 

PS: the biggest giveaway about the threads is where they're posted: someone who actually wants a film camera asks the question in a film-camera thread, and vice versa.

[tookaphotoof]

Isn't it fantastic most of us live in a country we can simply ask any question we want and at the same time ignore questions asked?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[plasticman]

Isn't it fantastic most of us live in a country we can simply ask any question we want and at the same time ignore questions asked?

 

Hmmm I can't find the part in my post where I say I want these threads banned?

On the other hand, if what you actually mean is that you want my opinion censored, I suggest you get in touch with a moderator who might be willing to erase it(?)

 

As for the actual substance of my post, naturally the part where I don't understand someone asking total strangers how they should spend $7000+ of their own money is simply a matter of human nature and its oddities.

I object more strongly to the replies that blankly state scanning is a chore, or that a digital camera output is 'superior' to film. In my view, this has as much meaning as the statement that Rembrandt is 'superior' to Caravaggio (choose your own variations here).