Future of the "R" series

[andybarton]

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Gentlemen,

I suspect all this speculation is pointless.

The most reliable information I have (from Solms) is that the new digital reflex will be full frame (24x36) with a body about the same size as the R9. It will most likely be released at PMA early next year with production starting after the summer vacation.

My source is not so confident about the focusing method but suspects it will be focus confirmation enabling the use of all existing lenses. LC AG cannot afford the development costs of converting the whole system to auto-focus particuarly as their customers are not that keen on it in any case.

Right now the factory cannot cope with the demand for the M8 with the commensurate increase in sale of rangefinder lenses. Commercially and logistically there is no hurry in bringing the R10 to market other than missing the market as they did with the Leicaflex.

Keep pondering.

Justin

 

Justin

 

This is all good news, but I wonder whether Leica's heart is ever going to be in the R series. If they are selling as many M8s as they can make, and yet still not satisfy demand, where's their incentive to spend money on the Rs?

 

As they missed the boat with the Leicaflex, they have seriously missed the latest one with the R series, and will have to carve out another new market with an R10. While this has been relatively easy, so it would seem, with the M8 (as the rangefinder market is actually miniscule when compared to the SLR market and Leica will have instantly got themselves into a market-leading position), this will, most certainly, not be the same for a new dSLR from them.

 

People who are used to the Canon and Nikon (etc) line are going to need some massive persuasion to move across to a premium product that is, in all likelihood, going to offer fewer functions, less buttons, a smaller menu list and all the other stuff that this part of the camera-buying public seem to like. I fear that an R10 will, like the DMR, only be sold to existing R users, with very few making it outside of the existing "community".

 

This would be a financial nightmare for the company.

 

If I were FD, I'd need some serious persuading myself, before commiting to the necessary R&D, and I'd not like to be the Sales and Marketing Manager who puts his neck on the line with regards to unit sale projections...

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[hankg]

People who are used to the Canon and Nikon (etc) line are going to need some massive persuasion to move across to a premium product that is, in all likelihood, going to offer fewer functions, less buttons, a smaller menu list and all the other stuff that this part of the camera-buying public seem to like. I fear that an R10 will, like the DMR, only be sold to existing R users, with very few making it outside of the existing "community".

 

I think there is room for a real alternative high end DSLR. Not everyone using Nikon/Canon is in love with the ergonomics/interface common to modern pro DSLR's. The DSLR market being so large even a small percentage of high end users who 'think different' would be more then Leica could supply in the short term. However not having the luxury as the M8 does of being the only choice in it's market niche the R10 will have a much higher bar to cross. If Leica can produce an R10 up to the challenge it could meet or exceed the success of the M8.

[Guest Motivfindender]

I think there is room for a real alternative high end DSLR. Not everyone using Nikon/Canon is in love with the ergonomics/interface common to modern pro DSLR's. The DSLR market being so large even a small percentage of high end users who 'think different' would be more then Leica could supply in the short term. However not having the luxury as the M8 does of being the only choice in it's market niche the R10 will have a much higher bar to cross. If Leica can produce an R10 up to the challenge it could meet or exceed the success of the M8.

 

I agree.

 

Greetings

dirk

[dhsimmonds]

Well, the buck stops ultimately with the CEO Andy. In his current LFI interview he definitly points to continuance of the R range, he does listen to customers requirements for new products but he does NOT always note their new requests. In his words "you can't ask them to invent something they don't know how to invent".

 

Instead he believes in a "need state". In otherwords, Leica will interpret Leica photographers real modern needs for image making, but try to invent new products to meet those needs. This is all modern marketing and management stuff and only time will tell.

 

Meanwhile Steven K. Lee, how about showing some loyalty to the customers who trustingly invested in probably Leica's most expensive product and who now urgently need their new firmware? This would actively demonstrate your responsibility towards Leica customers, past, present and future. This is now a very real need.

[rsolomon]

Ageed,

i would not consider an r10 out of the gate, whre in the past and with the DMR i was early in line. Leica has proven that upgrades to firm are few and far between - infact the DMR owners i know are still all running 1.1 - basically no upgrade from orginal shipment.

 

leica i still like ya but im not investing as i once did. from now on you'll need to show me the goods first, i'll need to read the reviews, and talk to users....no more blind faith

[paulja]

Hi everyone, i would buy one as soon as it comes out , i have been waiting for an all digital R camera i am not new to leica i own over 15 lenses from 28 to 400 2.8 and six cameras SL,s and R7,s and not that i dont like the size and shape of the R8 + DMR i did not want to spend 7-8 k on something that i use for a hobby and did not want to add another film camera hence ... the R8 .i always figured leica would make an all digital R although i had hoped it would have been done already . my point is i think all the existing R users that did not go for the DMR,, just might rather have an all digital camera ,,i,m for one would...paul

[zapp]

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Justin

 

This is all good news, but I wonder whether Leica's heart is ever going to be in the R series. If they are selling as many M8s as they can make, and yet still not satisfy demand, where's their incentive to spend money on the Rs?

 

People who are used to the Canon and Nikon (etc) line are going to need some massive persuasion to move across to a premium product that is, in all likelihood, going to offer fewer functions, less buttons, a smaller menu list and all the other stuff that this part of the camera-buying public seem to like. I fear that an R10 will, like the DMR, only be sold to existing R users, with very few making it outside of the existing "community".

 

This would be a financial nightmare for the company.

 

With the R10 you can make money if it come in time and is accompanied by a couple enw lenses. Without the R10, Leica has nothing to put up against other companies. Everybody who has worked with Canon/Nikon knows of the shortcomings and should understand possible advantages of an R10 - if it can hod up to the promises. There is no full frame Nikon camera right now - even the M8 has a larger sensor. Canon is not able to present really good wide angle lenses for their full frame cameras - and let's not forget Hassleblad, Mamiya, Pentax people. These companies have trouble ever since digital sensors came on the market. Most of their lenses do not resolve the detail demanded by the sensors. With film 30% less performance was compensated by a larger image area, digtally 35 mm lenses outperfrom medium format lenses by far.

You may have 5 years from now on to cash in on high quality products in the digital market, in the meantime other companies will either go bust or increase their standards. The earlier the R10 is delivered (without bugs) the better.

[bono0272]

No matter what Steven Lee is working on the new R camera, show me the new firmware for DMR. The company just can't just earn the customers' money but then leave the product it is what it is.

 

Listen to the voices of your loyalty R customers.

[rsolomon]

I can picture it now....

 

One day the the R10 users will be asking for a firmware update to the R10 ....and those who dont have it will say the R11 will be out shortly (within 2 years) so make do fellow R10 users and just use what you have.....

 

history has a tendency to repeat....

[bono0272]

Well said!

[hamey]

Yeah it's a disgrace, What about us poor old Film users, I am still waiting for my update

for my 35 year old SL as well as my two R7's, R8 and R9 ..........LOL.

 

Thank goodness I don't need to worry about this modern technological advances just to take a photo perhaps I am getting old to worry about this.

However.... Thank you Leica, for convincing me not to buy any of your Digital models.

 

Cheers.

[telyt]

... What about us poor old Film users, I am still waiting for my update

for my 35 year old SL as well as my two R7's, R8 and R9 ..........LOL.

 

I've gotten LOTS of updates for my Leicaflexes and film R bodies, but not from Leica. I get updates for these cameras from Kodak and Fuji

 

Aside from Kodachrome II, I shudder to think of using the color films from 1968, the year the SL was introduced.

[robert_parker]

I agree with Doug

 

The real thing that draws people to leica is that it is (or is perceived to be) the best.

 

Even if they do have a tendency to mix the role of technician with luxury goods salesman, as long as the lenses have that special quality, which is hard to find elsewhere and the bodies can be at least perceived to be the best around, then people will buy them.

 

It's the quality that people are drawn to, together with the knowledge that if you get the picture right, it's going to come out looking like something special - and as long as Leica can hold that high ground, they'll be able to sell all they can make.

[rsolomon]

agreed as well,

without the DMR and digital technology , kodak,illford,etc..along with the local film processer owned the image processing, with digital technology the camera manufacuter owns the image process (regardless of sub contracting it out).

 

this is leica is where leica never played before...this is where lecia is weak for a number of reasons ...

[dfarkas]

Let's assume some basic specs: 18.6MP on a 24x36mm sensor, no AA filer, angled and/or offset microlenses, takes all R lenses, nice bright viewfinder, solid construction, 3 FPS, 16-bit, decent battery life, as good ISO performance as M8. Forget about the 50 million custom functions, just give us a really, really good camera that is precision crafted and makes phenomenal quality images. Then offer it up at an M8 pricepoint (around $5K) and an R9 size and the R10 could certainly be more than a blip on the radar for Canon. The 1DSII and future, speculated 1DSIII will be in the $7-8K range. Imagaine if Leica had a DSLR that was better quality and less expensive to boot.

 

The DMR at 10MP already gives near MF results. With 85% more pixels at the same 6.8 micron pixel pitch, we are now in the realm of MF back quality with the versatility of the R system and its amazing glass. I'd hope that Leica would introduce a few new lenses to go along with this camera. 135 f/2 APO, 28 f/2 ASPH, and 24 f/2.8 ASPH are a few that come to mind. While we are in dream land, reintroduce the awesome 35-70 Elmarit. Also, keep the technology of the DMR rear LCD, while making it the industry-standard 2.5". It is the only LCD on any camera that I have found to work 100% in bright Florida daylight.

 

So now, we have a camera system that becomes a great choice for anyone considering MF systems at 3-6X the price, with many more lens choices, let alone some real serious competition for Nikon and Canon.

 

In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy my DMR and great R glass.

 

David

 

David

[andybarton]

I was in Preston this morning, killing time while waiting for a colleague to arrive at the railway station.

 

The Leica dealer there has two ex-demo R8s. One black, one silver.

 

For £299 each. OK, they're probably 5+ years old, but come on...

 

That price is ridiculous, and shows how far the R-line has gone.

[robert_parker]

Andy

 

Moneymaking opportunity ...!!.....

 

Snap them up at GBP250 each for the pair, then sell them at ffordes or TCC, where the asking price is GBP599 - 799 each !!!

 

[sdai]

That price is ridiculous, and shows how far the R-line has gone.

 

Seems that the half price deals are only available in UK ... has anybody seen such deals in the US?

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[andybarton]

Nothing to stop you buying them over here...

[telewatt]

I was in Preston this morning, killing time while waiting for a colleague to arrive at the railway station.

 

The Leica dealer there has two ex-demo R8s. One black, one silver.

 

For £299 each. OK, they're probably 5+ years old, but come on...

 

That price is ridiculous, and shows how far the R-line has gone.

 

No!! it shows how near the new line of Digital R Cameras is !!..

 

I'm to late to sell my R8... ..I use the DMR with the R9 and I'm shure to buy the "R10"

 

regards,

Jan