When focusing if I move (slide) the image slightly to the right

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Barry!

You do have a back focus problem and need to find out if the M8 is the problem or the lens.

 

My M8 went back to Solms for adjustment and now my 35 summicron is spot on, but my 50 lux asph still back focus.

 

It's disappointing to find back focus problem on this expensive lenses

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Do you notice the problem in 'real world' shooting?

 

At f1,4 you will - especially on portraits

[stunsworth]

Isn't f1.4 a bit of an extreme aperture to use for a portrait?

[B&W]

Isn't f1.4 a bit of an extreme aperture to use for a portrait?

 

No, I don't think so - in available light:)

[egibaud]

nothing wrong with you.

 

Some (seems very few) Lux 35 focus ok, all the rest backs focus. Some people will tell you to adjust your range finder.... but unless you are a one lense user, it will also make some changes for your other lenses.

 

I ended up sending my Lux35 and buy something else.

 

Eric

[bab]

Yes I notice the problem in real world shooting when focusing on the eyes of my subject the ears and hair are in focus sharp tack focus but the eyes are not. This is what lead me to conduct the test.

 

HO_CO you can not focus on the chart because the camera will not move the type or the bar together so it looks like one. Try this out yourself please! The image moves on a horizontal plane only when the sensor plane and the subject are parallel, by shooting the test chart at a 45 degree angle the finder shifts the two images at a diagonal not perfectly horizontal.

 

HO_CO the crop are different because each crop was done by hand one at a time and not to any exact dimensions to post them quickly. That does not mean that I moved the camera while shooting any of the examples as I stated before I only changed the F stop and for each set of two images the second image in each F stop was focus shifted to the right. Look through your own M8 and focus on a vertical line that is level with your sensor it wiil line up shoot the pic and see if its spot on. Now do the same but this time focus on a vertical line pointing the camera down at a 45 degree angle you will see the line is not vertical but skewed from upper right to lower left.

Now try focus on a horizontal line, again sensor level to the object first and then at a downward 45 degree angle.are you telling me that your viewfinder has horizontal registration? And when you make the image are you telling me that if you focus on a certain point the the point you focus on is the tack sharpest and it is not sharper above your point or below. If so your a lucky duck because mine is not...hence the ex. showing where I thought the camera was in focusing on a certain point and where it was not. It doesn't really matter if the camera is hand held or on a tripod when I'm getting a result of a focus point 2-3 inches behind my intended point of focus.

 

Say your at a party and you have a friend standing in front of a window and the light falling on their face is perfect for a good candid. You quickly pick a shutter speed and adjust the F stop to throw the background out of focus. You then focus on their eyelashes knowing that the eyeball and the eyelashes even a 1.4 will be tack sharp. YOU hold the camera still and fire. chimp the picture and it blurry. Bring it into your software later only to discover you premonitions were correct it is not in focus. the camera, your eye sight or the lens let you down. My eyes are 20 20 so my eye doctor says but I know in subdued light i need 1.25 glasses to see small type clearly. The Leica range finder is not the easiest to focus. Yes one other thing I could have moved the camera but on a tripod no it was not that. So either the camera or lens is F-ked!

 

 

So here is an ex I focused on the eyes behind the eyes is in focus but not the eyes.

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[andit]

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Hi Barry,

 

I have exactly the same problem as you do. When you focus and get the patch exactly clear/sharp, the image comes out "out of focus". However, when you turn the focus ever-so-slightly to the right, you have an out of focus rangefinder patch, but tack sharp photo's. From tests that I have done, it is a backfocus issue (I'm using a 90mm f/4.0 Macro Elmar).

 

The only way to get this solved, seems to me, is to send the camera in for adjustment (will most probably end up in Solms). For me that would mean being with out the camera for months - not acceptable. So, now I just put up with it and take this into consideration. I have found that when I get sharp focus on the patch, I move the focus ring slightly to the right so that one just starts seeing a double image - then shoot.

 

I don't trust myself to do the "hex" fix that is discussed here on the forum.

 

Andreas

[Chuck Hatcher]

Chuck--

Barry has already beat you: He turned the camera to vertical so that the dark line crosses the rangefinder patch properly for easy focus. Both easier and more exact than trying to focus on the crosspoint of a broad and a narrow line! Nothing wrong with your suggestion, just extra doing without added accuracy.

 

Now why didn't I think of turning the camera 90 degrees?!?

 

...That does not mean that I moved the camera while shooting any of the examples as I stated before I only changed the F stop and for each set of two images the second image in each F stop was focus shifted to the right.

 

If you change the focus of the lens at each F stop, you are introducing another source of error into the test. Focus only once and make exposures at different apertures WITHOUT refocusing. Then if you want to repeat the test with the focus shifted, change the focus once and repeat the exposures. As far as the rangefinder is concerned, there is no difference in focusing wide open or stopped down.

 

If you will mount your camera on the tripod vertically (still tilted forward, but in "portrait" vs. "landscape" mode), as HC suggests, and focus on the thick horizontal "Focus here" line in the center of the chart, you will not have the problem of trying to focus on a skewed diagonal line.

[bab]

focusing vertically I wish that were true, but actually the camera patch as I have stated before takes and skews the line so as if you were looking at an elongated "X" and having to move the intersection of the "X" in the middle NOPE out of focus....shift the image to the right in the patch to what seems like a 1/8" and presto tack focus.

[bingaloid]

Hi Barry,

Just out of curiousity, can you tell us when you bought the lenses, if they are originally coded or switched to a coded mount and did you start noticing the focus problem as soon as you began using an M8 or after a while?

 

thanks,

David

[Chuck Hatcher]

focusing vertically I wish that were true, but actually the camera patch as I have stated before takes and skews the line so as if you were looking at an elongated "X" and having to move the intersection of the "X" in the middle NOPE out of focus....shift the image to the right in the patch to what seems like a 1/8" and presto tack focus.

 

There should be no "X" and no skewed line in the rangefinder patch. Just the single thick black horizontal "Focus here" line, and a second dimmer image of the same line, parallel to it when out of focus, and exactly superimposed upon it when in focus. If you can't achieve that, there is something wrong, and until you fix it I don't think you can make any judgments about the performance of the lens. If the dimmer line is not parallel to the main image when out of focus, perhaps your camera is not oriented squarely in the direction of the chart.

[bab]

My lens is from the factory i presume #3995723 purchased in the United States new in the box in January 2007 not coded after as far as I know.

 

The "X" I'm referring to is that on the horizontal bar on the focusing chart the upper left of the out of focus patch is slightly higher on the upper left than the lower right. So if you put the ghosted image over the image in the center the upper left would be slightly higher and the right end of the bar slightly lower.

 

Now you have the elongated "X" in the center of the bar on the chart...by moving the ghosted bar image down and to the right about 1/8" (just guessing) you can achieve perfect focus. Now where the ghosted image and the original image intersect exactly is to the right of the center of the bar.

 

 

If I send the camera and lens to Leica in NJ how long for alignment?

[ho_co]

HO_CO you can not focus on the chart because the camera will not move the type or the bar together so it looks like one. Try this out yourself please! The image moves on a horizontal plane only when the sensor plane and the subject are parallel, by shooting the test chart at a 45 degree angle the finder shifts the two images at a diagonal not perfectly horizontal.

Barry--Please read what I wrote: From what you describe, you are using the camera in horizontal position. DO NOT DO THAT. Turn it to vertical and the rangefinder works perfectly. That's the same thing you would do in the 'real world' if you were focusing on something with a horizontal edge.

 

Chuck--

My apologies to you. You gave Barry one possibility to try to improve his focus, and because of the way his images are aligned, I thought he had already improved on your mechanism. I take it back. You were right. He needs to understand focusing in the situation he's working with.

 

--HC

[bab]

Thank for the valent effort you all have given to how to correct the focus problem...shooting in a vertical position does not produce any better results, true it is easier to align a horizontal line when the camera is vertical. But then on my camera with my lens you must focus and then re focus about 3mm up with the ghosted image to get tack sharp and that is just a guess.

 

Its obvious I have a equipment problem so my equipment need adjusting. Either my camera or my lens. If after the repair I have the same problem as some forum members suggest I will switch lens.

 

The only reason I purchase the M8 was to have a compact solution for some of my photography...I did not realize you had to have luck to get a camera and lens that focuses correctly I assumed after a hundred years of making range finders the factory would be able to produce a calibrated camera.

[ho_co]

The only reason I purchase the M8 was to have a compact solution for some of my photography...I did not realize you had to have luck to get a camera and lens that focuses correctly I assumed after a hundred years of making range finders the factory would be able to produce a calibrated camera.

Very well said, Barry! A lot of Leica users are wondering what is going on in this regard. The next issue (4/2007) of LFI is supposed to look at this issue, and the E Puts article mentioned above approaches it as well.

 

As Tim quoted Leica as saying, although the focus shift is a common issue with the 35/1.4, it is less in the 35/2 and it is completely absent in the 28/2.8, so one of those lenses might be a better choice for you.

 

However, the Puts article says that the lens should be in focus at full aperture that clearly isn't the case here. A number of forum members feel that there may be a batch of improperly adjusted 35 Summiluxes, and some feel there may be a batch of M8s with slightly misadjusted rangefinders.

 

I'm sorry you're having the problem, but the best thing is to send the lens in for checking; and if it's your only lens at the moment, it would be a good idea to send the body at the same time, both to be sure it is properly set and also because having both checked at the same time will mean getting back to picture-taking sooner.

 

--HC

[Chuck Hatcher]

Chuck--

My apologies to you. You gave Barry one possibility to try to improve his focus, and because of the way his images are aligned, I thought he had already improved on your mechanism. I take it back. You were right...

 

No apology is needed, on the contrary I owe you my thanks. I had been doing the same test with my camera in the horizontal position, and really needed the hint! I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier.

[bab]

Hey I just went to Orange County's point and shoot specialists Samys camera they had a 35m F2 in stock and I slapped that baby on my M8 focused on an Olympus box about 10 feet away and slowly squeezed off a frame...it was out of focus. Tried my proven method by shifting the ghosted image slightly to the right and it was almost perfect. Another frame and a little more of a shift and it was tack sharp.

 

Even though this is a work a round for using the camera I need it to be tuned up a little so my guesses are more correct.

 

I have left an email and voice mail at Leica so I my know how to proceed, whether to ship the body to NJ or Solms but as of yet no response.

 

I will keep all of you posted.

 

PS. Samys point and shoot specialists said my camera was the first silver body they had ever seen!

[Chuck Hatcher]

Sounds like it's a good bet your problem is with the camera, not the lens. Since you are going to have the camera adjusted anyway, you might try doing the 2mm hex key adjustment of the rangefinder roller that others here have had success with...

 

On second thought, nah, just send it in and let Leica take care of it.

 

...PS. Samys point and shoot specialists said my camera was the first silver body they had ever seen!

 

Hopefully they were talking silver M8 bodies...

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[bab]

Tried the 2mm hex after 3 hours of testing the best I could do is reduce the amount I have to shift to the right by 1mm.

 

Unfortunately my finder is still way off vertically and I am not sure how one would remove the red spot so, not for me to try.

 

I can say by double focusing I can achieve focus but it is not exact every time, so I'm hoping the message I left in the repair dept last Thursday and the email I sent will get answered some day so I can send my M8 and or my 35 1.4 asph. in for service.

[ho_co]

Barry, I don't think you need to wait for a response.

 

First, I don't know why they haven't answered. You might just want to try another phone call to Customer Service.

 

But if you've already decided to send both body and lens in, I think all you need to do is draft a simple letter requesting:

1) Camera—rangefinder out both vertically and horizontally; please adjust;

2) Lens—backfocuses; please adjust;

and send it with the body and lens.

 

Then, when you get the receipt, you can call the Repair Department to see if they need more info.

 

Just my idea, no better than anyone else’s.

 

Good luck!

 

--HC