wattsy Posted January 31, 2014 Share #41 Posted January 31, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The above is why I don't shoot with film anymore. I shoot 100% digital now because I am lazy and impatient … not because it is better. There, I said what most won't admit Yes, that's pretty much where I am too (and don't mind admitting it). As much as I like my MP it still has a roll of film in it from the summer. When push comes to shove I just prefer using my digital M bodies nowadays, regardless of the inferior ergonomics of the digital M and the comparative charms of the winding, no instant feedback gestalt of the film body. I'd also add that I find archiving digital files to hard drives, although not perfect, far preferable to archiving strips of negs and sheets of transparencies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Hi wattsy, Take a look here Hasselblad C/M or Leica M-240 for landscape. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
alphalam Posted January 31, 2014 Share #42 Posted January 31, 2014 If you plan to use tripod with the Hasselblad then it is certainly worth getting one. Even if you have a M240 already. Caveat first. It is very difficult to use a Hasselblad handheld and obtain excellent results. I use a 80mm f/2.8 handheld most of the time. Most of the images are not critically sharp. I rarely have a handheld shot that I can confidently print to 17"x17". A Hasselblad also needs maintenance, practice and caution if you want excellent large output. It needs focus screen adjustment, film plane adjustment, film flatness, etc, to name a few. To get vibration free results you need a few techniques: at least 1/125s (handheld), mirror lockup (I do this even for handheld), advance film before shot (to obtain best film flatness). It really requires a lot from the photographer. Once you master it you will get excellent results. It is an extremely versatile system. Every lens in the range of 30mm to 350mm is excellent. There is an abundant set of accessories: extension tubes for macro, tele converters, view finders etc. Almost all CF lenses take a standard set of 60mm filters. With a flexbody you can even do tilt-shift photography for landscape. Notably the 100mm lens is a rockstar, near zero distortion and excellent sharpness (It is as sharp as the Zeiss ZM 50/f2 across the entire frame). 250mm and 350mm superachromat are the best tele lenses money can buy in any camera system. Here's a list of stuff that it performs better than a M system: macro, tele, use of filters, tilt-shift (you need an additional flexbody), flash (1/500 sync speed), Nowadays Hasselblad V system lenses are priced reasonably. Get a set of 50, 60, 100, 180. If you want to go exotic, 40mm IF CFE, 250mm and 350mm superachromat. Spend time to master it and you'll not regert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 31, 2014 Share #43 Posted January 31, 2014 A few years ago, I would have said a Contax 645 was a better bet than a Hassy. It has a vacuum system to hold the film flat, auto-focus when you want it, a better damped mirror than the Hasselblad V’s, better, more hand friendly ergonomics and the next generation on of Zeiss lenses. However there is now virtually nobody who can service or repair them. Alpha Digital in the UK is gone and I am not hearing great things about the German operation. Very sad that these lovely cameras will fall by the wayside for lack of service/repair. Similar problems face Contax RF users with very few satisfactory service ports of call. There is one guy in the US but it is rarely a pleasure to do business with him. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphalam Posted January 31, 2014 Share #44 Posted January 31, 2014 That's certainly true about servicing a V system camera and lens. I just contacted Hasselblad USA recently. They still service ALL Zeiss for Hasselblad lenses: C, CF, CB, CFi, CFE, F and FE lenses. Hasselblad USA still service 500 and even 200 series cameras. There's a lot of people out there who knows and do excellent work on 500 series bodies and leaf shutter lenses. 200 series, F and FE lenses have to sent to Hasselblad. No one still service a 2000 series body in the world that I know of. Avoid getting one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphalam Posted January 31, 2014 Share #45 Posted January 31, 2014 I think the original poster wants to shoot landscape and print large (30"x30"). You really need at least medium format to get satisfying results with film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 31, 2014 Share #46 Posted January 31, 2014 Hi Chris, I have to agree, as much as I love film it's more about the process and the back end that I like because I can make digital look very similar to film, intact I can actually obviously do more. It's the craft and the mechanics of it that I find alluring but the catch is it's slow and a lot more laboured. I still shoot film occasionally and I love it but I don't actually think it's actually giving me anything more than extra work these days. The developing, the waiting, the scanning, the dust spotting. It gets exhausting when you are shooting it all the time and I have to say I'm a bit over it. It's treating it as a mother tool in the tool box and using it when suits rather than a all in one solution. A the moment I'm working on and experimenting with in camera techniques with digital to create the character I'm looking for rather than using a film stock. I'm happy with where things are headed at the moment and don't see myself wanting to use film for the result anymore. Just because I love film which is great to sample every now and then rather than all the time. As for medium format, again I love the result, digital too, but it's different and I prefer the aesthetic from my Leica and lenses at the moment so I'm using the Blad and Phase even less these days too. Also the added complications of the size and the rig involved, the ease of shooting with the M, it's a long list of pros. But a 24mp M, or for me a 18MP M9 is just way too limited for what I need at times, which creates a problem given it's a different aesthetic shooting MFD. I'm getting by but I need more captain! The quandary, oh the quandary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 31, 2014 Share #47 Posted January 31, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5x4 is a good idea for landscape I think. A Linhof Technica 5x4 rangefinder is a great option and you can always add a roll back too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share #48 Posted January 31, 2014 Why not just get a film Leica and shoot 35mm? That way you could use all your Leica glass and shoot away.... Used a Hasselblad for years but there is just something about a Rollei. re your first point, I've kept an M6TTL (got rid of the other one + an M7 years ago...), but I've not put a roll of film through it in 5 years, and wouldn't want to start using it for landscape for all the reasons outlined in other postings. re the later point - I also like Rollei - my father's was the first camera I ever used... I loved seeing the world the other way round, then all the business of developing, making contacts and enlarging, and finally the pleasure of watching a finished print emerge in the developing tray... There are still so many thoughts that this discussion is provoking - many of which relate to why we work with cameras and make photographs. 1. I really appreciate Marc's honest comments - I share many of these feelings. I also shifted to digital under the pressure of delivering jobs to clients in a real-world time frame and at a cost/quality that they and I were willing to live with. Since then, the convenience and immediacy of digital has continued to hold me in its thrall - and I genuinely prefer colour from digital to anything I was able to achieve with film (positive or negative). 2. The earlier comments from Ozoyo (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/318780-hasselblad-c-m-leica-m-240-a.html#post2617123) and Honcho (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/318780-hasselblad-c-m-leica-m-240-a.html#post2617132) haven't gone unnoticed by me - though I'm not sure how I can respond to them given where I am at the moment. 3. I do like the idea of the Rollei too (or even the Yashica). Keeping it simple, recognising that I'm doing it for fun alongside whatever paid work I'm doing, and not going for a system camera might be a sensible way forward... 4. Wilson's comments on the sad fate of all these lovely mechanical devices falling into disuse as we lose the skills to maintain them raises another kind of concern. ... but in the meantime, this is an M-240 forum, and there are things to celebrate with regards to the outstanding image quality that's now available to us from our legacy and state-of-the-art lenses. If it weren't CHUCKING it down with rain in the Lake District at the moment, I'd be out with my minimalist M + elmar 50 2.8 walking set up, and happily taking handheld images which, I hope, take advantage of what is offered by 3x2 format, digital capture and the potential of modern post-processing. I can't give you a print of this, but if anyone's interested, there's a JPEG rendering of the image at 30" x 20" that can be downloaded from here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/862415/Ullswater.zip. I'd have every confidence in printing at this size, but as this is something that I rarely need to do (A3+ does well for most of my needs), I seem to have gone back to square one. So, I'm REALLY glad I've got the M. What a good decision that was. And then there's this tickle of interest in all those other ways of crafting an image. Hmmm. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/221082-hasselblad-cm-or-leica-m-240-for-landscape/?do=findComment&comment=2522657'>More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 31, 2014 Share #49 Posted January 31, 2014 People buy small sculptures to put on their bookshelves for more money than a beautiful Hasselblad would cost you. Buy one and put it on your bookshelf, then take it out every now and again when you are just plain bored and want to shake it up. It can do wonders for your creativity. I did the same thing with a Rolleiflex TLR. It works great and for most of the time, it makes for the most beautiful art object on my shelf of photo books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share #50 Posted January 31, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 31, 2014 Share #51 Posted January 31, 2014 Why not just get a film Leica and shoot 35mm? That way you could use all your Leica glass and shoot away. Film and digital are very different - digital is immediate BUT film has a feel to it and you just can't replicate that. Set yourself a personal project and go out and shoot life because there is NO better way of recording this than on a M Leica and good old B&W film. Make proper prints with a V35 in a darkroom and you will be well rewarded with both the pleasure of making it with your own skill and ultimately far better results than faux digital prints will ever give. Don't get me wrong here though, I use digital all the time BUT for my own stuff out come my film M's. For my work I need that emotional feel that only film can give - if I was shooting medium format I would use a Rolleiflex 2.8F. Used a Hasselblad for years but there is just something about a Rollei. Paul, Somehow I see you more with a Graflex Century and a press pass stuck into the hat band of your fedora Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 31, 2014 Share #52 Posted January 31, 2014 People buy small sculptures to put on their bookshelves for more money than a beautiful Hasselblad would cost you. Buy one and put it on your bookshelf, then take it out every now and again when you are just plain bored and want to shake it up. It can do wonders for your creativity. I did the same thing with a Rolleiflex TLR. It works great and for most of the time, it makes for the most beautiful art object on my shelf of photo books. Bernd, I have to confess to just having bought a Sharan Megahouse 8 x 11mm film sub-miniature Rolleiflex to go with my 3.5E and Baby. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsprow Posted January 31, 2014 Share #53 Posted January 31, 2014 My M does a great job on landscapes but when I want the most appealing large prints of same, with amazing resolution and the deep blacks afforded by film, out comes my Hassy SWC. It only sees perhaps 15 rolls per year, but in 25+ years it's never needed any service. But realistically I could do just fine with the M alone, a tripod and the additional thoughtful patience that the Hassy requires (and rewards). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirekE Posted January 31, 2014 Share #54 Posted January 31, 2014 Does any one have thoughts? Examples? I will start with some oversimplification. Some landscape photographers are perfectionists and some are opportunists. Perfectionist scouts the location, plans ahead. He travels to Grand Teton NP to shoot Oxbow Bend on September 23, because this is when the cottonwoods are at their peak color. He arrives at the vantage point before dawn and waits for the best light and best cloud position. Opportunist walks a trail, watches the nature and when some extraordinary emotional constellation happens, tries to capture and convey that decisive moment. If I should put myself to one of the two categories above, it would be the Opportunist. I noticed that the moments I like to capture in landscape photography come suddenly, are dictated by a combination of cloud and sun positions and weather and sometimes last less than a minute. Ideal camera for my type of landscape is a small and light one with good image quality and live view for accurate focusing and (occasional) filter effect preview. Another view: When shooting landscape with film, one of the technical challenges in B&W were to create good tonal separation via filters. In color, the challenge was, well, the color. I very much liked Velvia, for example, but I could not get that vibrance present in the slide to the print. And with most if not all films that I used, the colors were perhaps pleasant, but not accurate. Digital allows me to play with the sliders later and dial in green, yellow, orange or red filter as necessary in non-destructive manner. With color, I started to appreciate the post processing options and the fact that the color is no longer signature of the manufacturer, but the photographer. Summary: I prefer small digital camera over large film camera for landscape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted January 31, 2014 Share #55 Posted January 31, 2014 ..... The earlier comments from Ozoyo (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/318780-hasselblad-c-m-leica-m-240-a.html#post2617123) and Honcho (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/318780-hasselblad-c-m-leica-m-240-a.html#post2617132) haven't gone unnoticed by me - though I'm not sure how I can respond to them given where I am at the moment..... Scratch the itch first then you'll know how. Whichever way you jump thereafter, I hope you continue to enjoy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted January 31, 2014 Share #56 Posted January 31, 2014 I used to take vacation photos with a Canon EOS film camera and have it developed locally--that was my film experience. After five years of getting into photography seriously with digital cameras, I thought I should give film a try. Two years ago, I bought a Hasselblad 501c (I think) with a 80mm lens from KEH and decided to take darkroom lessons at the local photography center. One solid day in a darkroom convinced me that I had no interest. I understand why people with lifelong darkroom experience want to use those skills, but I quickly realized that I would need to think about film type and characteristics, chemical type and characteristics, and all the darkroom techniques. I felt my time was better spent beefing up my digital post-processing skills than trying to master two different domains of knowledge, particularly because I found the darkroom sort of depressing compared to working at my desk with a computer. Had I continued with film, I would have limited myself to black and white. I took several photography courses from a 70-year commercial photographer (with some big name clients) who also specialized in nudes and headed a photography department at an art college. He now had a digital study in his basement, which I visited. It was elaborate, so this guy clearly had his feet firmly in both the film and digital worlds. He said, if you are shooting color, digital now had it hands over film. He said with black and white, film still had the edge, but that digital was gaining. That was two years ago. That advice supported my decision not to pursue film any further. Interesting, two weeks ago I had inherited my dad's old M3, which hadn't been used since 1966. Since I had the lenses, I thought I would shoot some film and have it processed. In Chicago, there is now only one lab that still processes black and white film, so don't assume there will always be labs out there. That is a long drive from me. Since I can get color processed close by, I might buy some color film and see what happens for fun, but my serious shooting will be digital. Anyway, that is my experience. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasf13 Posted January 31, 2014 Share #57 Posted January 31, 2014 I've been playing with the idea of getting a Hasselblad and working with film again, but then, after a bit of reading around (e.g. Shootout + others) I have been asking myself whether, apart from the pleasure of the thing (it's a beautiful piece of engineering) and the fun (?) of messing with a chemical dark room again, it would be worth the effort. I can get square format images like the one below (full image + crop) that I can confidently print to 30" x 30" - so why bother. And note - this was hand held and with the little 50mm Elmar-M. While I fully accept that MF digital trumps 35mm digital, I'm not sure if film will be worth the effort (even for B&W). Does any one have thoughts? Examples? It really just depends on how large you end up going, because digital 35mm with 24mp keeps pace with, or betters, medium format film up to a certain size, but then film starts to take over, because digital eventually falls off a cliff. I think the post from Stuart Richardson on this page sums it up nicely: Mamiya 7 VS 24MP Digital? - Photo.net Medium Format Forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share #58 Posted January 31, 2014 Opportunist walks a trail, watches the nature and when some extraordinary emotional constellation happens, tries to capture and convey that decisive moment. Mirek - I relate very strongly to what you're saying here - which is why the M-240 is such a spectacularly useful tool. Maybe I'll see if I can get myself some modern sculpture at a knock down price (I've got my eye on a beautiful Rollei F2) and stop worrying about whether I shoot MF film or not - though I'll then have the option should time and the occassion permit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted February 1, 2014 Share #59 Posted February 1, 2014 Opportunist walks a trail, watches the nature and when some extraordinary emotional constellation happens, tries to capture and convey that decisive moment. For the most part, this is the kind of landscape shooter I am and I personally find the Hasselblad V system much better in accommodating this kind of living and seeing than any other camera system I have used, including RF gear. I'm pretty fast to react with my 4x5 but damn near instant with my 501CM. Great landscape work in the modern age is less about the grandiose landscape afoot and much more about how it reflects the photographer's life among it. It's a very challenging thing to be able to blow people's minds with an image this day and age and I love that about it... And yes, the darkroom is not for everyone, but it does come easier to one if you truly love it. My arriving at it is kind of odd in how it feels "Futuristic" to me after using digital for 21 years....it's a good kind of odd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 1, 2014 Share #60 Posted February 1, 2014 I sold the similarly shaped to Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, which had been my 40th birthday present from my wife, many years ago. I found it was just too clumsy to hand hold and I did not do enough tripod photography to warrant keeping it. Sadly it was also not a good one, with the film plane not exactly at right angles to the axis of the lens. Unlike Hasselblads, this could not be adjusted and Mamiya claimed it was just within tolerances. I find these shape cameras do not hang nicely from a strap, so that you can compose in the screen, while looking down into it, unlike the Rolleiflex TLR’s which hang nicely in the correct orientation. About 5 years ago, I was offered a pair of new and unused commemorative Rolleiflexes a 135mm lens one and a 50mm lens one from the last batch made by Franke and Heidecke. They came in lovely french polished wooden presentation boxes. It was a probate sale, from an elderly local gentleman who had bought them not long before he died. The estate wanted £4,000 for the pair. I had just put down a pre-release deposit for the M9, so I turned the offer down - doh! I think DHW Fototechnik charge considerably more than this for a single camera now. The problem is I would have used them, which reduces their value immediately. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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