Fotofanatiker Posted January 8, 2014 Share #21 Posted January 8, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) If Leica Rumors is to be believed, it will be APS-C Hopefully not - even though I fear you are right... Why the company which invented the "full frame" format would bother with anything else (and a comparatively crowded market), is beyond me. Especially as Leica probably will never be able to compete with Sony or Fuji in terms of electronics and features... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Hi Fotofanatiker, Take a look here 2014 - Possibly a big year for Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
barjohn Posted January 8, 2014 Share #22 Posted January 8, 2014 The lenses might be great, and maybe even better but they also are 3 times the size... I can hardly call the A7 with it's native lenses compact like a M... I'm not sure what lens you are talking about that is 3 times the size or weight. Below is comparison of 35mm lenses and of the 55mm vs the 50mm mounted on the cameras. Given that the Sony lenses include AF the sizes are close and overall sizes are very close. The Leica packages weigh considerably more. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/219736-2014-possibly-a-big-year-for-leica/?do=findComment&comment=2504287'>More sharing options...
cirke Posted January 8, 2014 Share #23 Posted January 8, 2014 I am still waiting for a M SonyA7-like FF for M lenses without rangefinder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2014 Share #24 Posted January 8, 2014 We are getting quite OT here. The thread is about our Leica expectations for 2014. I'm not sure what lens you are talking about that is 3 times the size or weight. Below is comparison of 35mm lenses and of the 55mm vs the 50mm mounted on the cameras. Given that the Sony lenses include AF the sizes are close and overall sizes are very close. The Leica packages weigh considerably more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 8, 2014 Share #25 Posted January 8, 2014 The new factory in Portugal is ready and working. The key variable here is the new factory in Germany. When the factory is ready new products might be presented. Photokina 2014 will be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted January 8, 2014 Share #26 Posted January 8, 2014 The lenses might be great, and maybe even better but they also are 3 times the size... I can hardly call the A7 with it's native lenses compact like a M... Moving the raison d'être for the M to it's physical size is naive, and short sighted. It won't be long before there's a higher IQ, smaller physical volume camera than the M. Besides, in my bag the A7R plus 35 & 55 is considerably lighter than the equivalent M set up, and fits in the same bag EASILY. So practically, for me, it is a "smaller" system. The purpose of the M is a digital rangefinder camera which accepts (and performs exceptionally well with) native legacy M lenses. Those, like me, who have moved away from the M, came to the M in the first place as a smaller FF DSLR replacement. Now we're moving away as there really is a smaller DSLR replacement which offers higher IQ and more functionality. RF shooters will remain RF shooters no matter what. Leica glass shooters will remain Leica glass shooters. It really needs no more 'defending' than that. I know people who play golf with the old persimmon golf clubs despite massive advances in technology and game improvement the new metallic drivers offer, just for the hell of it. They're not wrong, it's just what they choose to do. Edit: What the Sony proves to me in terms of Leica is that there is simply no reason for the M to not be the physical dimensions and weight of the M6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted January 8, 2014 Share #27 Posted January 8, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure what lens you are talking about that is 3 times the size or weight. Below is comparison of 35mm lenses and of the 55mm vs the 50mm mounted on the cameras. Given that the Sony lenses include AF the sizes are close and overall sizes are very close. The Leica packages weigh considerably more. Indeed. Put the EVF on the M and it's just as awkward a form factor. Hybrid EVF/OVF in an M6 form factor on the other hand...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share #28 Posted January 8, 2014 Micro 4/3rds? Not a chance. Or a small high-end compact? I think the C or DLux 6 don’t need replacement yet.I am still hoping for an APS-H EVIL….Maybe APS-C. I don't see this happening as it would mean that Panasonic will need to build a new family of lenses (after all they do have a stated intent to pursue M43). Panasonic will be unable to achieve the necessary cost advantages from volume production. It's more likely that it will be a badged Panasonic M43 or even a Leica spec, designed and built one with Panasonic licensed innards. Probably bundled with the Nocticron as a starter lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2014 Share #29 Posted January 8, 2014 That would be quite a departure from stated policy for Leica. "No 4/3rds". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 8, 2014 Share #30 Posted January 8, 2014 Edit: What the Sony proves to me in terms of Leica is that there is simply no reason for the M to not be the physical dimensions and weight of the M6 The controls, motherboard and screen and the back explain the difference. The Sony has a much shorter flange distance than the M system's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 8, 2014 Share #31 Posted January 8, 2014 It's more likely that it will be a badged Panasonic M43 or even a Leica spec, designed and built one with Panasonic licensed innards. Probably bundled with the Nocticron as a starter lens. The Nocticron's price is 1500 euros. Any Leica camera with this lens will cost 3000 euros. Too much for a 4/3 camera. This is a prestige lens. I don't see how it can make any economic sense for Panasonic, but it is not Leica's problem. Panasonic camera division has losses and the company is determined to shut down any unprofitable business brand by 2015. So Panasonic's commitment to a complete offer of 4/3 photographic products may be revised soon. If the money is in video cameras, that is what Panasonic will produce. Olympus position if not better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 8, 2014 Share #32 Posted January 8, 2014 Just curious, where would the T stand for in 'Leica T Typ....'??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted January 8, 2014 Share #33 Posted January 8, 2014 The controls, motherboard and screen and the back explain the difference. The Sony has a much shorter flange distance than the M system's. I suspect the modernity of the electronics, their design in terms of level of integration and miniaturisation make the most difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 8, 2014 Share #34 Posted January 8, 2014 I suspect the modernity of the electronics, their design in terms of level of integration and miniaturisation make the most difference. Yup. Sony, Canon etc have enormous economies of scale that result in single board electonics designed to fit in the camera rather than Leicas 'off the shelf' bits bolted together. More reliable, less power consumption and faster. I don't think that's a race that Leica will ever win..... but an M on a diet would help..... To be honest anything smaller than an A7 is too fiddly to use for a full function camera so there is a practical limit in how much smaller things can get without becoming a pain. If Leica changes it will be by slow evolution rather than sudden mutation as Sony did with the A7. I've set my expectations for 2014 suitably low ..... which is just as well as the bank account is empty ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 8, 2014 Share #35 Posted January 8, 2014 A camera the size of the X-Vario with built in EVF and interchangeable lenses and 24mp FF no AA sensor would be a hot seller. Probably won't happen as it would considerably undercut M sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 8, 2014 Share #36 Posted January 8, 2014 In thinking aps-C but hoping om aps-H although I'm not sure how many cameras actually stil have aps-h sized sensors, it seemed to have died out a bit to me, it's either aps-c or full frame now a days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 8, 2014 Share #37 Posted January 8, 2014 What the Sony proves to me in terms of Leica is that there is simply no reason for the M to not be the physical dimensions and weight of the M6 The following pictures show an M (Typ 240) and a Sony NEX 7 with an adapter for M lenses mounted side by side. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Both cameras lie on the lens mount. no body caps attached. The ruler lies on the NEX's display. Even without the hand grip the NEX is thicker than the M. It is less high, but not by as much as the RF's height. It is, however, quite a bit narrower (not shown). Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Both cameras lie on the lens mount. no body caps attached. The ruler lies on the NEX's display. Even without the hand grip the NEX is thicker than the M. It is less high, but not by as much as the RF's height. It is, however, quite a bit narrower (not shown). ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/219736-2014-possibly-a-big-year-for-leica/?do=findComment&comment=2504682'>More sharing options...
dwbell Posted January 8, 2014 Share #38 Posted January 8, 2014 The following pictures show an M (Typ 240) and a Sony NEX 7 with an adapter for M lenses mounted side by side. [ATTACH]416685[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]416686[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]416687[/ATTACH] Both cameras lie on the lens mount. no body caps attached. The ruler lies on the NEX's display. Even without the hand grip the NEX is thicker than the M. It is less high, but not by as much as the RF's height. It is, however, quite a bit narrower (not shown). Not sure what your point is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 8, 2014 Share #39 Posted January 8, 2014 Not sure what your point is? I am sorry that I failed to express myself clearly. Here's an attempt to do better this time. Please excuse if I seem to mention things which are obvious to you.I responded to your statement: "What the Sony proves to me in terms of Leica is that there is simply no reason for the M to not be the physical dimensions and weight of the M6".The dimension which is most criticized in the M is its thickness, i.e. the distance from the lens mount to the back of the display.I took your statement to mean that Sony succeeded in building a comparable camera which is not as thick as the M.I therefore tried to compare the thickness of an M to that of a Sony. Not having an A7, I had to fall back on a NEX7, hoping that the difference in thickness was not very marked.What my pictures show is that the distance from the lens mount to the back of the display is smaller in the M than it is in the Sony. The Sony is thicker, not thinner than the M, if only by a few millimeters. The reason may be that the Sony's screen is articulated and the Leica's is not. Still, it's thicker.This shows that - at least in the Sony NEX 7 - the distance from the image plane to the back of the display is not significantly smaller than in the Leica M.This - in turn - might provide an answer to your question: why the M can not be the physical dimension of the M6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted January 8, 2014 Share #40 Posted January 8, 2014 Ahh, I see. Thanks. Well, my criticism would not be mount to LCD thickness, it would rather be front of body to back of LCD thickness, together with overall mass. My A7R suggests, with it's very thin body dimensions and weight, that it is certainly technological possible to have an M6 size and weight digital M. I don't think Leica will do it, nor do i think that they are capable of doing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.