White Balance for DMR

[bono0272]

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I believe similar questions have been asked on the white balance of the DMR:

 

Do most of you set the WB of the DMR to auto, or do you choose every time from the options of sunny, cloudy, etc. in order to suit the actual shooting conditions?

 

I am not satisfy with the WB of the photos which taken by my DMR, when reviewing them thru the LCD at the back of the machine. No matter I put the WB setting to auto, sunny, or whatever to suit the actual lighting sources, it was always 30-40% of photos were not at the correct WB, either too warm or too cold.

 

The best results come out when it was an extremely sunny day, and both the auto and sunny WB give the same output. However, the auto WB function does not perform very well if shooting under shadow, or indoor conditions.

 

Although I can adjust the WB afterward by using Capture One, it is expected the DMR itself can calibrate, not 100% accurate, but at least more precisely on the WB output.

 

I am still using the firmware 1.1

 

Are there anyone having the same problem?

[calvados]

I believe DMR is specialized for Raw data. The function of JPEG and TIFF is additional.

 

If you will use raw data, you can control white balance at develop time, may use ColorChecker information or your feeling.

[bono0272]

Yes I am shooting RAW everytime.

 

And the reproduction of the WB of such RAW files thru the DMR LCD is not stable. Sometimes they are correct, such like shooting under sunny days, but quite often the WB is not accurate.

 

Recently I usually go taking photos with my friends and they are using Canon DSLR such as EOS 5D and 350D. If just comparing the WB result, I prefer the Canon performance than the Leica's, of course I am talking all of us (Leica and Canon) were taking the same picture with same composition. At least the Canon shows its stability on WB. The DMR WB results always fluctuate.

[calvados]

Yes I am shooting RAW everytime.

I'm sorry for my misunderstood.

Could you tell me your development software and technique?

 

I always use RowShooter or FlexColor for DMR.

Because Adobe DNG format has simple ICC profile it is 3 x3 formats. Adobe Camera raw has no specific ICC profile information, therefore no real ICC profile used for DMR, and color collections not valid. This collection is very difficult for us. And Adobe Lightroom has good potential for this point.

 

RowShooter and FlexColor can make good result.

I wrote this point on my homepage, but this Japanese, I’m sorry.

LEICA Digital-Module-R + LEICA R9

Comparer the raw data Converters

 

If you wish make good white balance, I recommend use ColorChecker and chose Gray Point. This is most easy way. I can’t recommend color temperature control, it is last resort.

I feel DMR’s CCD is not liner performance, therefore Coloecheker Neutral Color 1-5 has small different result.

But white balance is not technical term, it is psychological term or feeling. Because, the real last phase are your sensibility.

 

The following page is related information, but Japanese, sorry.

“White balance is not duty for digital camera"

 

PS

I meet this problem last year, and I confuse this point, may be as you.

[troyfreund]

I know everyone on here says "the DMR is made for RAW. You should only shoot RAW" and then manage your WB later. Well heck, I didn't make the investment I did in order to only use one file type. Often the clients I'm working for don't need that level of resolution and I don't have or want to spend that much time at my computer. With how costly of a camera the DMR is, the AWB should be better. Because it isn't, I tend to manually choose my WB setting. I rarely use AWB. Choose your WB based on the light of the situation and move on.

 

Troy

[mgcd]

I only use RAW like most other professional DMR shooters. You can only make use of the full imaging quality (16 bit A/D) on RAW. The AWB is precise for the most part, but as with most automatic things, at times, it tends to interpret the scene in its own way. I tend to use the manual settings, like Daylight, etc. instead. In addition, when processing in C1 and ACR you have the option of using "as shot" or custom in terms of colour temperature. The only known issue with AWB is that when shooting on continuous the third frame in a series exposure tends to give an erroneous WB. That is a known bug in Firmware 1.1. We're all waiting for 1.3

[ebwilson]

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I am a prospective DMR owner. Does the unit have the capability as in the Nikon cameras for PRE-setting the white balance to the ambient conditions? With the D-100 it sometimes works fabulously, and others not much better than Auto. RAW or not, it seems logical that the closer the original file is to perfect, the higher the potential for the final image. Raw should make things better, not just more complicated and expensive.

[mgcd]

I am a prospective DMR owner. Does the unit have the capability as in the Nikon cameras for PRE-setting the white balance to the ambient conditions? With the D-100 it sometimes works fabulously, and others not much better than Auto. RAW or not, it seems logical that the closer the original file is to perfect, the higher the potential for the final image. Raw should make things better, not just more complicated and expensive.

 

Yes it does. WB can be set either manually or through "Custom WB" reading from a white or gray card.

[bono0272]

Yes yes, I am shooting RAW all the time.

 

Again my question is: my DMR does not perform very well in WB, sometimes I can say it is not stable. In a series of photos taken at the same place the same moment, the WB of the photos are not identical. I always have to adjust the photo WB by Capture One during post processing.

 

This should not be the performance of such a high graded machine. If this is the defect of the firmware, I'm expecting there will be an improvement in version 1.4

[mgcd]

Richard - My WB is always consistent when I set it on Daylight, Tungsten, etc., and honestly even on AWB (except as described in my initial response) so I'm afraid I can't be much help here. I have yet to experience the kind of issue you describe.

[bono0272]

I realize that the WB of my DMR performs the worst under cloudy and shadow conditions. The AWB setting always produces a yellowish color when I shoot under cloudy or shadow conditions. If I switch to manual selections of cloudy or shadow, then the WB outputs are appear in blue, i.e. too cold.

 

Just in terms of WB performance, I prefer my wife's Canon 350D which shows consistence and high WB reproduction ability.

[calvados]

Just in terms of WB performance, I prefer my wife's Canon 350D which shows consistence and high WB reproduction ability.

 

Are you wished camera controlled white balance?

DMR has no sensor for WB, therefore you’re wish can't grant by new firmware. I recommend using color chart. It is most popular way and accurate.

 

The mechanism of white balance is just help function for environment information recording. This situation is same all of digital camera.

 

Best Regards

[bono0272]

DMR has no sensor for WB, therefore you’re wish can't grant by new firmware. I recommend using color chart. It is most popular way and accurate.

 

The mechanism of white balance is just help function for environment information recording. This situation is same all of digital camera.

 

 

Thank you for the information, I really don't know the above facts. But why when I shot the same subject with same settings, the WB between the DMR and Canon DSLR appear so different?

 

The Canon cameras produce more natural WB than the DMR. In general I don't need to calibrate the WB by a Canon DSLR during post processing in the computer but I do have to adjust most of the DMR pictures' WB.

[calvados]

the WB between the DMR and Canon DSLR appear so different?

 

The Canon cameras produce more natural WB than the DMR. In general I don't need to calibrate the WB by a Canon DSLR during post processing in the computer but I do have to adjust most of the DMR pictures' WB.

 

This fact is quite simple that white is just sensibility of human, not scientific matter.

Our eyes can feel Red(588nm), Green(531nm), Blue(420nm) light only. And our brain mixing this information, and make result, it is color. Basically all of light in mixed all of light wavelength, and not same. If lot of long light wavelength, this light is red…if camera takes picture white object, this color is red. But our sensibility result is different, if we stay this situation, our brain control this sensibility, and we can understood white object is white.

We can find difference of camera picture and our sensibility.

 

The era of film, we can’t control this situation; therefore we use flash or filter.

The ear of digital, we can control this situation, it is white balance.

 

Bat, remember again, white is not scientific matter, therefore this control is not scientific matter. Almost digital camera has easy solution, it is measure white light, you can find white window on camera front. This is white balance sensor. But this sensor is on the camera, not object, therefore this sensor is useful same environmental light only, exp wide view outdoors.

 

You feel Canon DSLR is more better white balance, why is this point, Leica DMR has no white balance sensor, it is only CCD data and software algorisms, this case is not accrete white balance, specially LEICA, because they has small know-how about this area. I believe Japanese small digital camera has more good white balance.

 

If you wish pre-setting for camera about white balance, I recommend use color temperature direct. But, if you take pictures by raw format, camera’s white balance is no meaning, because white balance process is only development time, not take picture. It is just comment.

 

The reason of DMR has no white balance sensor. It is simple, white balance sensor is just toy. More good white balance technique is specify neutral color on picture at development time. This case will user color checker.

Step 1 take picture of color checker

Step 2 At development, you will specify neutral color(gray point) on picture by white balance picker(or neutralize picker).

Step 3 more control by your feeling.

Step 4 Copy development information.

Step 5 Apply development information for target picture.

 

Enjoy!!

 

PS

The following is use color checker.

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