Strange white spots on M9 sensor?

[k-hawinkler]

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IIRC there is also an Eclipse 2.

What is that made of?

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[bocaburger]

That's because the website is an informercial for Visible Dust products and owned by them.

 

If you're happy using their products and they work for you, then that's all that really matters. However, they are very expensive and it can be argued that standard off the shelf materials are just as effective.

 

I did not know they owned the website...it was linked by someone else. So far their products have worked for me, but I have not used them on Leicas, only Canons with AA filters and no history of coating delamination TTBOMK. I do like the fact the Visible Dust solutions are not flammable though, as I travel by air frequently and would not want to get caught with contraband

[edwardkaraa]

IIRC there is also an Eclipse 2.

What is that made of?

 

That was due to the Tin Oxide coatings of the Canon 5D. I think Eclipse removed the soft coatings or damaged them. Eclipse 2 has been discontinued and only the original 100% methanol is sold currently. I am not sure what happened exactly, but I think either they were faulty coatings on some 5D copies, or Canon actually changed the coatings on subsequent batches.

Edited December 1, 2014 by edwardkaraa

[photokalia]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm one of those whose M9 sensor needed replacement. While I'm glad that Leica has come out with a statement to acknowledge the issue, the issue continues to upset me a little. I'm not sure whether this is a matter of taking time to let go of my unhappiness, or if I have genuine grievances as a loyal customer. I'll just put my thoughts out there anyway.

 

I use my M9 mostly on weekends, and the sensor issue happened without having done any kind of cleaning on the sensor. While I don't baby my M9, I've been reasonably careful with it. I don't go out with it when it is raining, and my camera goes into the drybox when not in use.

 

One of the issues that bothers me with Leica's "fix" of replacing the sensors with the same ones is that I live in Southeast Asia, where the relative humidity averages around 80% or higher. So replacing the sensor doesn't resolve the root cause for me unless I keep my M9 in my drybox and only save it for trips to temperate climates. I know hindsight is 20-20 (for myself and Leica included) but just saying that my decision to go for the M9 might have been different had I known about the humidity issue before hand.

 

I'm not one of those unreasonable customers who thinks that Leica should replace corroded sensors in perpetuity, but I do think that what they should have done here is to give assurance that they will find a permanent fix for this and then do a one-time replacement of the sensor for affected customers (instead of doing this good will 3yr replacement cycle). Thereafter, it would be fair to close the matter with no further liability on Leica's part. With the current approach, I basically can't sell my camera without incurring a big loss, and I have to keep relying on Leica's good will each time the sensor fails (and hope it fails within the 3 year window).

 

Which brings me to the second "fix" of upgrading to the M240. When the M240 came out, I had weighed the pros and cons of upgrading to the M240, and concluded that I preferred my M9 for a variety of reasons (smaller, lighter, more user friendly interface). Now I feel forced to upgrade in order to escape from the cycle of sensor replacement that I highlighted earlier. This bothers me because I invested in the M9 to escape the whole Canon/Nikon cycle of use, toss and buy every few years.

 

In addition, having owned (and I continue to use) film M bodies, I put my faith in the M9 because I saw Leica as synonymous with quality cameras (for a price premium of course). So I guess I'm just disappointed that the spell has been broken.

 

I suppose on balance, the cost of the sensor would be equivalent to sending my film M for a CLA once every few years. But then again, my M6 TTL has only needed one CLA since I got it 2nd hand about 10yrs ago. So it would be nice if Leica digital cameras could match that kind of workhorse reliability. I can only hope... in the mean time while my M9 is having its sensor replaced, I'm going to have to think hard about whether to adopt a "use and pray" approach or whether to just give in and upgrade to the M240 (and definitely, the cost of upgrade will be a factor for me).

 

As stated, my preferred solution would be for Leica to commit to finding a permanent fix and then doing a one-time replacement and end their liability on the issue. I think that would be the fairest approach. That said, I think that Leica has been brave enough for at least having acknowledged the issue and should be applauded for it. They have my respect on that count at least.

Edited December 1, 2014 by photokalia
added more points

[andybarton]

If you wish to discuss the merits or otherwise of water-cooled Porsches, please start another thread in Barnack's Bar.

 

Thank you.

[edwardkaraa]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm one of those whose M9 sensor needed replacement. While I'm glad that Leica has come out with a statement to acknowledge the issue, the issue continues to upset me a little. I'm not sure whether this is a matter of taking time to let go of my unhappiness, or if I have genuine grievances as a loyal customer. I'll just put my thoughts out there anyway.

 

I use my M9 mostly on weekends, and the sensor issue happened without having done any kind of cleaning on the sensor. While I don't baby my M9, I've been reasonably careful with it. I don't go out with it when it is raining, and my camera goes into the drybox when not in use.

 

One of the issues that bothers me with Leica's "fix" of replacing the sensors with the same ones is that I live in Southeast Asia, where the relative humidity averages around 80% or higher. So replacing the sensor doesn't resolve the root cause for me unless I keep my M9 in my drybox and only save it for trips to temperate climates. I know hindsight is 20-20 (for myself and Leica included) but just saying that my decision to go for the M9 might have been different had I known about the humidity issue before hand.

 

I'm not one of those unreasonable customers who thinks that Leica should replace corroded sensors in perpetuity, but I do think that what they should have done here is to give assurance that they will find a permanent fix for this and then do a one-time replacement of the sensor for affected customers (instead of doing this good will 3yr replacement cycle). Thereafter, it would be fair to close the matter with no further liability on Leica's part. With the current approach, I basically can't sell my camera without incurring a big loss, and I have to keep relying on Leica's good will each time the sensor fails (and hope it fails within the 3 year window).

 

Which brings me to the second "fix" of upgrading to the M240. When the M240 came out, I had weighed the pros and cons of upgrading to the M240, and concluded that I preferred my M9 for a variety of reasons (smaller, lighter, more user friendly interface). Now I feel forced to upgrade in order to escape from the cycle of sensor replacement that I highlighted earlier. This bothers me because I invested in the M9 to escape the whole Canon/Nikon cycle of use, toss and buy every few years.

 

In addition, having owned (and I continue to use) film M bodies, I put my faith in the M9 because I saw Leica as synonymous with quality cameras (for a price premium of course). So I guess I'm just disappointed that the spell has been broken.

 

I suppose on balance, the cost of the sensor would be equivalent to sending my film M for a CLA once every few years. But then again, my M6 TTL has only needed one CLA since I got it 2nd hand about 10yrs ago. So it would be nice if Leica digital cameras could match that kind of workhorse reliability. I can only hope... in the mean time while my M9 is having its sensor replaced, I'm going to have to think hard about whether to adopt a "use and pray" approach or whether to just give in and upgrade to the M240 (and definitely, the cost of upgrade will be a factor for me).

 

As stated, my preferred solution would be for Leica to commit to finding a permanent fix and then doing a one-time replacement and end their liability on the issue. I think that would be the fairest approach. That said, I think that Leica has been brave enough for at least having acknowledged the issue and should be applauded for it. They have my respect on that count at least.

 

If I was in your position, I would contact CS without any delay and ask them for an upgrade offer. When I sent mine to Solms last year, I asked for an upgrade offer, and they said yes, but then ignored my request. Maybe they didn't have enough M240s in stock that time as it was still on back order in most places. For me, this is the ideal solution.

 

The M9 is already 5 years old, with a 10 year old technology. The M240 is much more uptodate and the upgrade cycle with digital is unavoidable, even with Leica cameras. And actually the M240 feels more like a film Leica M than the M9 with its lower shutter noise and general responsiveness.

 

That would be my advice to you, from someone who has been there before.

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The trouble with that advice is that people who prefer the colour rendition of the M9 don't consider getting an M240 to be an upgrade. Some feel strongly about this, so there is no need to state that the colour can be equalized in post-processing. In my case, both my M9-P and M-Monchrom had to have the sensor replaced...not that happy without a permanent solution, as suggested by "photokalia".

[edwardkaraa]

The trouble with that advice is that people who prefer the colour rendition of the M9 don't consider getting an M240 to be an upgrade. Some feel strongly about this, so there is no need to state that the colour can be equalized in post-processing. In my case, both my M9-P and M-Monchrom had to have the sensor replaced...not that happy without a permanent solution, as suggested by "photokalia".

 

That is of course well understood.

[M-Mount]

...the M240 feels more like a film Leica M than the M9 with its lower shutter noise and general responsiveness.....

 

And the 3sec wakeup lag? The M9/MM wakeup is only 0,5 sec.

[edwardkaraa]

And the 3sec wakeup lag? The M9/MM wakeup is only 0,5 sec.

 

As far as I know the wake up times have been card dependent. Since I started formatting my cards with SD formatter, the wake up times went down to less than a second. The M9 needed 5 seconds to turn on, the M240 is instantaneous. (But also suspect that would be card dependent as well).

[M9reno]

Breaking my promise not to shoot blank skies at small apertures, I tried it this morning. Oh, the glorious skies of England on a cold December day!

 

But does the blob on the right (with central black dot) look like corrosion? (There are a dozen like it - some a little bigger - on other parts of the frame from which this is an enlargement).

 

Note also the two lines running vertically down the right-hand side.

 

Presumably this camera needs to go back to the mothership?

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[wattsy]

The two larger blobs with the halos don't look like normal dust spots to me so, yes, it might be a problem. I'd have Mayfair Customer Care have a look at it if I was you – I'm sure they'll be delighted to deal with another dodgy sensor (if it is).

Edited December 1, 2014 by wattsy

[edwardkaraa]

I see at least three delamination spots and streaking (the 2 vertical lines) from the sensor swab. The streaking occurs when the swab motion is not smooth. I'm not sure if you mentioned that you never cleaned your sensor but it could be from the factory as well.

 

The largest blob is very typical, it is in an advanced stage. Soon it will detach and fall, leaving a white spot in the photos.

Edited December 1, 2014 by edwardkaraa

[M9reno]

Thanks. I did swab-clean my sensor in the early days (six months or so) after purchase in May 2011, and once again a year later (Nov. 2012), but have not done so again since the camera went for a sapphire screen upgrade in June 2013 and came back with a clean bill of health and clean(-ish) sensor (an accompanying note said the sensor had been cleaned at Solms).

 

I just spoke to Mayfair and the camera is going back to Germany. We will see what develops.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

Could some kind soul please point me towards Leica's statement on the problem and their sensor replacement stance/offer?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[wattsy]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/307974-strange-white-spots-m9-sensor-4.html#post2825494

 

and http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/307974-strange-white-spots-m9-sensor-9.html#post2830563

[keithlaban.co.uk]

" Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement."

 

Has anyone followed up on this? I'm very interested, but not sure who to call.

 

Bob

 

Again, has anyone followed up on this?

[keithlaban.co.uk]

The addition of the upgrade route has pacified me somewhat.

 

Jaap, could you tell me who I should contact regarding a possible upgrade?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Customer Care Wetzlar. They will refer you to the person who is in charge of this.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

Hmm, seems all service and support pages at Wetzlar are down at the moment. Perhaps they are busy ;-)

Edited December 1, 2014 by KeithL