M240 in extremely cold environment [merged]

[ns_ng]

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Hi,

 

I will be going to Inner Mongolia towards the end-of-December. I planned to bring my M240 and M8 for this trip. The temperature is expected to drop to as low as -40 deg C. Has anyone here used the M240 in such a low temperature environment? The coldest I have ever experienced was about -12 C, years ago in Feb in Northern Ohio. At that time I had a R4. I was told to use exothermic heat pads to keep the cameras and batteries warm. Any other suggestions to keep the camera in working condition?

 

N S Ng

[jaapv]

The main problem will be the batteries. Keep one or two on your body and be prepared to change them every few shots. The LCD will darken too. For the rest... You are in Terra Incognita. Most of not all digital cameras are rated to operate above zero but will withstand cold, if only even for a while. The M is particularly vulnerable as its all metal and small body will cool down relatively fast. Thermal pads seem to me to be a good idea. Make sure to take a film body as well. But realize that film will become brittle and vulnerable to electrical discharge when rewinding, so take great care when pulling the film through the camera.

[ns_ng]

I searched the internet for products that could keep cameras warm in extremely cold environment. They seemed to have insulating covers for video cameras. These appeared to use thermal pads. There is a case made for DSLR which used these thermal pads as well. I think my best solution is to use a neoprene camera case, such as the one from Leica or Op/tech with thermal pads. Of course, these thermal pads will be in my boots, gloves, etc. Should be a challenging trip for both man and machine!

[jip]

Sounds like an interesting trip, to take some stunning pictures... If the cameras keep working i'd bring a M4 as backup.

 

Keep the batteries in your underwear!!!

[jaapv]

Assuming it is not -40 under your underwear as well. But then, you might have other concerns in that case…

[ns_ng]

Lithium batteries are known to explode. Don't keep them in the underwear...

[jaapv]

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I searched the internet for products that could keep cameras warm in extremely cold environment. They seemed to have insulating covers for video cameras. These appeared to use thermal pads. There is a case made for DSLR which used these thermal pads as well. I think my best solution is to use a neoprene camera case, such as the one from Leica or Op/tech with thermal pads. Of course, these thermal pads will be in my boots, gloves, etc. Should be a challenging trip for both man and machine!

I am not that much impressed with thermal pads in my shoes and gloves. They cannot be controlled so your hands/feet are always too hot/cold. I prefer electrically heated insoles and electrically heated gloves. Available both through skiing and bikers outlets.

[woorob]

Although I've never used an M (240) in extremely cold conditions, I have used an M9-P on multiple occasions at temperatures below 0°F including -25°F conditions in the Selkirks where the windchill approached -40°F in the high mountain areas, with no particular issues in terms of camera performance. When shooting in cold conditions, I always keep the camera under my jacket as much as possible, carry extra batteries and try not to breathe much onto the camera as doing so can introduce serious fogging in the viewfinder and lens. I'm not sure the chemical packs that generate heat would be of much assistance in the extreme cold, and never use them myself. Multiple layers of clothing work best.

 

Sounds like an absolutely terrific trip, have fun!

[philpopham]

My trips to Mongolia are in the summer when it is rather hot and humid, and particularly so in hospitals with no air conditioning, but The Land Of The Blue Sky is unlikely to disappoint in winter.

 

In contrast, although similarly cold, I hope to see and photograph the Northern Lights this winter, when there is likely to be little light at all. I have done some research and read some books, but does anyone have any advice? I shall be using an M with Zeiss 21 mm f/2.8, and anticipate starting off at ISO 1000 with 10–20 s exposures with +1 stop overexposure, obviously dependent on conditions at the time.

 

Is it possible to turn off the "long exposure noise reduction" feature? I wonder whether that might allow more frequent shots, but can find no means of turning it off.

 

Any help gratefully received...

 

Phil

[jaapv]

Yes. the camera does do a black frame noise reduction and you cannot turn it off. It does not need to be turned off as it does not reduce resolution and increases image quality dramatically in a way you cannot replicate in postprocessing.

You will find that the longest shutter-open time, quite limited to start with, will get shorter as you increase the ISO. However, your proposed settins are well within the limit.

I doubt you will need such extreme exposures, though. I get good starry skies with 2.8/30 sec @ ISO 200. Northern Lights will be much brighter.

[Guest Gilgamesh]

Wear gloves. It's a metal body.

 

The fact that I am the first to tell you this is a surprise.

I will be in Mongolia in late Nov/ Dec/ Jan / early Feb.

 

Keep warm. No batteries work well in sub zero temps.

You will not experience -40 where you are going so stop fretting.

 

For those new to the region, Inner Mongolia is both south and east of Mongolia, not in Mongolia, i.e. China.

[Guest borge]

The most important thing when using cameras for an extended period of time in this cold climate is what happens when you take the camera inside somewhere where it is warm again.

 

A shift from -40 to +20 will cause a whole lot of condensation, especially on the M since it is made from solid metal so the heat-up process will take a lot longer than if the camera was made of plastic for example.

 

I would use a photo bag or backpack of some sort that is padded really well (with photo inserts) and place the camera in that bag when you take it inside, and leave the camera there for a couple of hours and let hit heat up. If you have it inside a bag that is cold as well it will heat up more gradually.

 

Removing the battery before you take it inside can be a good idea, cause you don't want to risk that the camera is turned on while it might be condensated on the inside.

 

With that said I have used a Monochrom in up to -33 celsius for several hours without problems. The focusing mechanism of the lens got rather stiff from the cold, and the cocking mechanism sounded a bit sluggish. You have to be careful not to breath on the camera as your breath will cause frost on the camera body itself (and inside the rangefinder/focusing screen if you breath there).

 

Due to weather sealing the M240 should hold up better than the MM/M9.

[helged]

Bo's advice (above) are all good.

 

I have carried an M9 for multiple days in temperature down to -25C or thereabout, and I have never experienced problems with camera or lenses. Frozen fingers, well, thats another issue....

[philpopham]

Thank you all for the very useful advice. Swapping an Australian summer for a northern winter, what was I thinking??

 

My fingers are not the only things that I am worried about freezing.

[ns_ng]

Here is the link to the trip itinerary and some images, Winter Wonderland Photography – Inner Mongolia and Bashang, China | Shutter Journey (SGP)

 

For lenses, I will have my WATE, 28 'Cron, 35 'Lux, 90 AA, 180 Apo-Elmarit w/2x Apo Extender. I might bring my 70-210 Angenieux instead of the 180 Apo-Elmarit as the zoom is more flexible.

 

I have experienced 40 deg C years ago when I was working in the Omani desert. But -40 deg C sends me the shiver just thinking about it.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

N S Ng

[leonroy]

With the M9 I noticed in sub zero temps the camera would lockup a lot more with certain cards. I think the M240 is far less picky about SD brands but I'd still hedge my bets and pack a few different flavours from Samsung, Panasonic and SanDisk.

[brill64]

the shutter on my m9 froze once temporarily at -39C plus windchill in Moscow's deep winter. A much needed bowl of hot borsch soon sorted that out. I used hotpads in my pockets with the batteries & put the camera with lens attached into a large ziplock bag then back into a closed camera bag when going indoors from time to time. This prevented condensation forming when going back outdoors. I have found these to be effective measures for short trips out into various snowy, winter wonderlands on many occasions.

[Guest Gilgamesh]

Checked out their site. My, do they like saturation at level 12 or what!?

That double sun dog for example.

 

I have just come back from 7 days on two sections of The Great Wall not far from Beijing at Jainkou and Mutianyu.Cost? Travel was about £7. Accommodation a little more (£10 a night), food about the same a day. £180 all-in maybe?

 

But then I don't need anyone to hold my hand, tell me when to take a picture, tell me when to visit the loo.

 

Have an interesting trip.

[wattsy]

But then I don't need anyone to hold my hand, tell me when to take a picture, tell me when to visit the loo.

 

Maybe you'll get a medal? Why not let someone enjoy their holiday without turning it into a pissing contest or is that too much to ask?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tundraline]

Based on my experience taking photos at and around -40F (and even lower) in places like Minnesota, Manitoba, Russia, and Finnmark with various different types of cameras, here are a few tips you might find useful: (1) Bring an extra factory (Leica) battery for the M, and keep it somewhere close to your body and beneath clothing while outside. Batteries lose deliverable charge rapidly under extremely low temperature conditions. (2) Chemical hand warmers are cheap and work extraordinarily well (see "Grabber" band hand warmers). You can use them to keep your hands, feet and a spare battery warm. I would not bother trying to keep a camera and lens warm with chemical heaters (too much mass, and the camera and lens will cool off immediately once exposed to the elements). Keeping the camera and lens beneath your outer layer at least when not in use is also a good idea. (3) Thin silk or latex gloves are a must, as they permit fine adjustment of camera and lens controls without baring skin to the elements. Don't worry about sweating in latex gloves -- you will stay warm if you wear them and keep them on. Wear thin gloves underneath a more robust and warmer pair of mittens or gloves. Mittens are almost always warmer than gloves, so bring both in case it really does get down to -40F (where almost any glove will be worthless). See Mountain Hardware brand expedition gloves and mittens (my favorites). (4) Bring a zip-lock bag (or two) sufficiently large to hold your camera and lens. Put the camera and lens inside the bag and close it before going inside to warm up. This will prevent condensation from forming around the cameras viewfinder, etc., when you go inside. Once the camera and lens warm up inside the bag it's safe to take them out. (5) Bring and use a swimming snorkle (no kidding). This will keep your breath vapor away from the camera when you are outside in cold weather, and prevent fogging and icing of the viewfinder and other parts of the camera and lens. For tripod work especially a snorkle in very cold weather is exceptionally handy. (6) Bring a good pair of boots, such as Salomon Toundra boots, a good facemask that will cover your cheeks, and a pair of clear ski goggles in case it is windy. (7) Avoid using a film camera at very cold temperatures -- just about everything has a nasty habit of breaking at those temperatures, especially film. Remember that cold feet and hands will end your outside activities faster than anything else, so don't skimp in that area as you make preparations. The key to being successful at very cold temperatures is to be prepared, and when you are, the experience is much more enjoyable. If temperatures only go as low as say -20 C you will find that many of the things described above won't be necessary. Hope you have a great trip. Sounds like a real adventure! Good luck!