edwardkaraa Posted October 29, 2013 Share #21 Posted October 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Theoretically this could happen to any camera, so at least for the M240 Leica Camera AG has actually stated officially, that if that should happen - they will pay for repair/new kit. Theoretically, but in reality, I've never heard about strap lugs falling off except with the M240, and when I researched this issue, I discovered that the M9 had a similar issue, but to a much lower extent. I think Leica is having trouble fitting all the electronics in this relatively small body and they have to save on the space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Hi edwardkaraa, Take a look here Strap lugs still an issue. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Luakbay Posted October 29, 2013 Share #22 Posted October 29, 2013 What Leica said when they discovered the error (believed to be prior to April 5, 2013 deliveries) was that they would take responsibility for any camera and lens damaged due to this. So that should take the worst drama out of it. Theoretically this could happen to any camera, so at least for the M240 Leica Camera AG has actually stated officially, that if that should happen - they will pay for repair/new kit. Although they said that, but I am afraid they also ask for proof, and it will get ugly later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #23 Posted October 29, 2013 Theoretically, but in reality, I've never heard about strap lugs falling off except with the M240, and when I researched this issue, I discovered that the M9 had a similar issue, but to a much lower extent. I think Leica is having trouble fitting all the electronics in this relatively small body and they have to save on the space. So they save on space by eliminating the back (inside) nuts on the lugs? Just joking of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 29, 2013 Share #24 Posted October 29, 2013 I think Leica is having trouble fitting all the electronics in this relatively small body and they have to save on the space. I have to disagree. I think it's more related to cost savings. The Leica M body is huge compared to the Sony A7/A7R for example. I don't want to start a comparison discussion here. But honestly: strap lug problems should be the last problem on a camera at this price point. The strap lugs should have been over-engineered in all sorts of way, and the lugs should be able to deal with a massive amount of weight - much more than any "M" camera in reality would ever weigh, even with a 400mm lens attached. The lugs coming off is one thing, but I've seen reports that the metal that the M240 lugs are made of are much softer than previous generations as well, causing much more visible wear and tear of the metal in no-time. This is not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #25 Posted October 29, 2013 Softer metal sounds serious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted October 29, 2013 Share #26 Posted October 29, 2013 I have to disagree. I think it's more related to cost savings. I don't want to sound too critical of Leica, but sometimes I wonder if they really don't have the technology when they use outdated LCD screens, processors, and other electronic parts that are bettered by most point and shoot cameras. It could be all about cost saving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #27 Posted October 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't want to sound too critical of Leica, but sometimes I wonder if they really don't have the technology when they use outdated LCD screens, processors, and other electronic parts that are bettered by most point and shoot cameras. It could be all about cost saving. Sad if true especially for a very expensive camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 29, 2013 Share #28 Posted October 29, 2013 This is worrying for me, as I use my M240 a lot with a Zeiss Vario Sonnar 28-85, which is a similar weight to the Leica 28-90 but when extended for wide angle, even longer. Mine is definitely a post lug repair model as my original M240 was damaged during the lug repair process and replaced. I do carry my camera around a fair bit by a strap attached to the lugs. The screws do look worryingly small. A thread on the lug with a large nut on the inside then peened over, would have been a better solution. Even if Leica replace the camera and lens (a Zeiss one???), you just know like OP, that it is bound to happen at the time of maximum inconvenience. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #29 Posted October 29, 2013 I still think what I do in post #6 above is the safest approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica1215 Posted October 30, 2013 Share #30 Posted October 30, 2013 if leica really did fix this issue at later production then no need to worry , anyone knows what leica did to fix this? change different lug or fixure ??? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 30, 2013 Share #31 Posted October 30, 2013 Yes I am curious now too what Leica did to actually solve the problem of the lugs, or might not have solved (reading this thread)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted October 30, 2013 Share #32 Posted October 30, 2013 I don't want to sound too critical of Leica, but sometimes I wonder if they really don't have the technology when they use outdated LCD screens, processors, and other electronic parts that are bettered by most point and shoot cameras. It could be all about cost saving. The problem is much more about order quantity than cost savings for Leica. If you're Sony or Panasonic you not only have the massive resources of a consumer electronics giant, you also have enormous volume purchasing power. That power enables their engineers to either produce or source electronic components, such as LCD screens, for much less. With Leica, making a few thousand cameras a year, even ten thousand, the buying power just isn't there, and so the Leica engineers are forced to source "off the shelf" components, balancing size, performance, availability and of course cost. The lug issue is embarrassing and perhaps a design flaw, but I don't believe it's a result of deliberate cost savings. I believe the use of the small screws, even when properly secured with thread locking compound, is perhaps a poor choice considering the weight of R mount lenses than can be used with the camera. Even though I don't think there is any way Leica will recall and correct this I have a feeling that the next M will not use the same lug mount method. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
suneohair Posted October 30, 2013 Share #33 Posted October 30, 2013 My concern is that I haven't received any notice after registering. I emailed typ240@leica-camera.com and they said "no news is good news" but it seems some received an actual notification that their camera was not a part of the bad batch. Any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted October 30, 2013 Share #34 Posted October 30, 2013 The lug issue is embarrassing and perhaps a design flaw, but I don't believe it's a result of deliberate cost savings. I believe the use of the small screws, even when properly secured with thread locking compound, is perhaps a poor choice considering the weight of R mount lenses than can be used with the camera. Even though I don't think there is any way Leica will recall and correct this I have a feeling that the next M will not use the same lug mount method. Nice informative post Stephen. It's a pity they decided to change a design dating from 1954 that has been working well ever since, and replaced it by an inferior one nonetheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted October 30, 2013 Share #35 Posted October 30, 2013 My concern is that I haven't received any notice after registering. I emailed typ240@leica-camera.com and they said "no news is good news" but it seems some received an actual notification that their camera was not a part of the bad batch. Any thoughts? I never received any notice concerning my M240 which was delivered well after the Apr. 5 recall because I believe the serial number does not fall within the range of "questionable" units as to whether or not thread locking compound was applied. I agree that no news is probably good news in this case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted October 30, 2013 Share #36 Posted October 30, 2013 Nice informative post Stephen. It's a pity they decided to change a design dating from 1954 that has been working well ever since, and replaced it by an inferior one nonetheless. Hard to say Edward. When I look at the tiny screws being used to attach the lugs to the frame I do feel concerned, but without more detailed specifications or test data my concerns could well be unjustified. It might be that this design is extremely robust and that the entire problem is one worker on the line who has forgotten and continues to forget to use thread locking compound. I don't know, but based on the fact that I have not heard of any lug failures (i.e. breaking off) I like to think that the specification is sound and that the lugs are capable of supporting as much weight, or more, than previous generations. Let's hope that Leica's new bread of mechanical engineers (most of whom were born well after 1954) are smart enough to look in the archives to see what has worked, and worked well. But I agree this is probably a case where it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted October 30, 2013 Share #37 Posted October 30, 2013 Hard to say Edward. When I look at the tiny screws being used to attach the lugs to the frame I do feel concerned, but without more detailed specifications or test data my concerns could well be unjustified. It might be that this design is extremely robust and that the entire problem is one worker on the line who has forgotten and continues to forget to use thread locking compound. I don't know, but based on the fact that I have not heard of any lug failures (i.e. breaking off) I like to think that the specification is sound and that the lugs are capable of supporting as much weight, or more, than previous generations. Let's hope that Leica's new bread of mechanical engineers (most of whom were born well after 1954) are smart enough to look in the archives to see what has worked, and worked well. But I agree this is probably a case where it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel... I can't see any screws that attach the lug to the frame. Are they inside the camera body? Teddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 30, 2013 Share #38 Posted October 30, 2013 I can't see any screws that attach the lug to the frame. Are they inside the camera body?Teddy Yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 30, 2013 Share #39 Posted October 30, 2013 I received one of the first M240's in the US and I can tell you I received multiple emails from Leica regarding my lug nuts and that I should contact Leica NJ to begin the replacement process. I was on a long photo journey at the time and could not send it in, but eventually had to due to lug failure. So I recommend to take their emails seriously should you get one or more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted October 30, 2013 Share #40 Posted October 30, 2013 Properly fastened screws can take a lot of load. Even small screws. Does anyone know their size; and material? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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